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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
The thinking behind keeping guns empty when not in use has been a point I have gone back and forth on. I have to admit, the 'keeping it unloaded' mentality simply came from what my mind has taken in re: guns over the years, well before considering purchasing a firearm. I have a Remington 870 12-gauge pump action shotgun that I keep, unloaded, in my clothes closet, near corner, well-hidden by longer coats, etc... I thought about some kind of secure storage, but that simply defeats my purpose in having it available for quick use, if necessary. I have also thought about keeping it loaded, but without a chambered shell (and with the safety engaged). That way, it would only require flipping the safety off and giving the forearm a pump to be ready to fire.
Daughters are now in college and out of the house. One of them likes to shoot skeet and trap with me, the other will soon. I have no worries about them when they are home. Not an issue. I want them to feel confident to know and use if necessary when alone at home. As to having a safety. My feeling has been that an actual safety mechanism could quite possibly be a detriment in a high stress situation. I have found a gun range that is even closer to the one I have been going to that also has a number of handguns available to try out. Unfortunately, only of the ones they have listed is one I am thinking about (CZ 75) but I think it would still be good to get a feel for how I handle different calibre ammo, but I know the gun has a lot to do with that, as well...
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Levi Bennett Inner circle 1778 Posts |
Yeah- try some out if possible. You're right that it really depends on the make and model as to feel. My Ruger .45 has a much smaller kick than it should for a .45. Closer to a 9mm recoil. It's a great gun!
I didn't like the idea of keeping loaded either until I actually had guns in the house. Then the time to load factor lead me to reconsider. To each their own though, so whatever you do is right for you. I like your thinking on the shotgun. I've heard people say that the cocking sound of a shotgun is sometimes all it takes to end a home invasion. I've also heard people say that intruders should never hear the gun cocking- that the first sound they hear should be the gun going off. But I also live in Arizona! lol Having a safety is the one thing I don't like about my gun. I bought it when I had less pistol experience and liked the idea. Now I would like a revolver or a striker fired pistol without a safety.
Performing magic unprofessionally since 2008!
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
My idea of home defense is to encourage an intruder to leave rather than create injury to anyone. The problem with high powered handguns is that neighbors are also at risk.
There is also the problem of learning handling and accuracy that is expensive and "unfriendly" to many folks such as spouses and my 90 year old mother. You may like to go to range and play around, but don't pretend that has anything to do with defense. So, after giving all of my guns away many years ago I decided to do some research -- given the changing nature of our society. One primary question is what my mostly blind wife can use -- and be willing to use if necessary. One option is a "Judge." A friend with a camping/ cabin resort swears by one. Loaded with slugs it has a 6" spread at 30 feet and can stop a bear. It is like shooting a 22 pepper gun, You don't need to be accurate to drive someone away. Plenty of time to reload when everyone jumps in a ditch. Not something my wife wants lying around, though. I also researched the psychological aspects of intruder defense. Then the choice was simplified. What I now have is a pump 20 gauge with a pistol grip and laser sight with a chamber lock and loaded with two slugs and three "00" buck shells. Completely safe and she can unlock with a key by the stove or nightstand. The key is that the sound of a shotgun being pumped is very distinctive and will drive most intruders away. The red spot on their chest should finish the retreat if necessary. If she should ever decide to fire it will be without any practice except dry runs. The fact that she knows she can stop a person coming through the door will give psychic warning anyway. just thoughts from a couple of old farts who really don't want to shoot anyone. (cost about $200)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I promise I won't get political, but have an honest question.
If you are recommending a loaded chamber because you want quick access, then does that imply the weapon will not be locked up away from those in the house who shouldn't touch it? I am trying to understand what provision is being made for this.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
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On Dec 11, 2014, landmark wrote: Maybe you want others in the house to touch it if needed.......... In my house it is just me and my wife. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On Dec 10, 2014, acesover wrote: Personally I do not keep any guns loaded around the house. Concealed carry is something else, but in the house I don't keep my guns loaded. In fact I've never even put a cartridge or a shotgun shell in a gun inside my house. I'm not talking about chambering a round, I won't even put one in the magazine. If I have to check something and want to put a round in the mag and work the action I'll use a snap cap. I just won't load a gun in the house for any reason And the idea of loading a gun, sticking it somewhere and leaving it, is not something I'm comfortable with at all. In the case of a handgun, having a loaded but detached magazine, or a speed loader, right next to it is plenty enough peace of mind for me. Same with having shotgun shells or rifle cartridges in the vicinity of a long gun. I have guns and I have ammunition close by, I'll take my chances with ability to load a gun and the time it takes to do so. Fact is, I live in a rougher area of a major metropolitan area, we get break-ins in the area now and then, yet I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about home defense. If something were to go down so fast that someone got into my place and got to me before I could get to a gun, oh well. I have to follow my own standards of gun safety. One of the biggest of which is don't leave loaded guns lying around unattended. If it's on your body or in your hands that's something else. No way I'm shoving a round into a gun then sticking it in a closet, or under the bed, or even in a gun rack. I'm not saying it's wrong, or that you are wrong, necessarily. I'm just saying that a gun that isn't locked and loaded at all times isn't "useless" in a home invasion situation. If you read those Armed Citizen articles in the NRA magazines; when it comes to home invasions or break-ins you will see that in almost every case the homeowner went to investigate because they were alerted in some way or another that someone was in their house. Unless someone bursts into your home and rushes straight to where you are with the intention of killing you, you will probably have time to grab your gun and prepare it. That's just my opinion and they way I handle guns around my home. Like I said, if that makes me overly cautious, or means I'm somehow gambling with my life, so be it. |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On Dec 11, 2014, landmark wrote: Like MD said, I think it depends on the makeup of the household. Not everyone keeps their guns under lock and key. Or equipts with a trigger lock. Some will say it's not necessary to lock guns up if there isn't a child in the home etc, although it's good to remember that "those in the house who shouldn't touch it" may include someone who breaks into your home while you are away. The gun that is kept in a closet for home defense could easily walk right out the door if it's left unsecured. I have to admit though, I do sometimes have unsecured guns in the home with basically the doors and windows, and my hope that I don't get broken into, as the only security against them falling into the wrong hands. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2014, Magical Dimensions wrote: No one visits?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I have a single action revolver. I like anachronisms . The reason I like Glocks is their ease of use compared to other autos. I really prefer the simplicity of revolvers, though. And I really prefer a 12ga over a pistol for home defense. IMO, the only thing pistols have going for them is portability
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Home defence a shotgun is all you need. It will serve you far better for many reasons.
Revolvers are the next choice. A speed loader is almost as fast because you won't have to rack the slide. Best choice for home defence is an alarm and a dog. Not even a guard dog. Just a dog.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
Glocks always cut my hand. A lot of my friends like them but the grip always threw me off.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2014, Marlin1894 wrote: Thanks for your detailed explanation.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
By the way a dog and an alarm keep people out BEFORE they get in. Which makes them superior home defence choices. A gun comes into play AFTER you are snout to snout and this is not fun.
Also I am with marlin. I taught firearms classes and I agree with him 100%. Not saying anyone is right or wrong just what works for me. Also an alarm and a dog give you more time to get ammo to weapon if need be.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Let's try to get back to the subject of the topic, please - specific pistol recommendations.
I'm weighing through the other issues (got an alarm and a dog, btw). Would prefer this particular topic keep to its subject, if you all would kindly indulge me
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
I recommend you get a gun that fits your hand(s) properly (that typically encompasses whether or not you can get all your fingers around the thing, etc),has the proper trigger weight and travel distance for you, that has proper sights based what he gun is to be used for, where and when it is most likely to be used, and are suitable for your vision requirements. It should be in the proper caliber for it's intended use (for home defense preferably something that will not shoot through every wall in your house in the event of a miss, for example), it should have sufficient weight for the caliber, a track record of reliability, is aesthetically pleasing to you, and is within your price range. It should be a gun that you can shoot comfortably, that you like to shoot, and that will hit the target reliably when you aim and fire the thing.
For starters. Honestly, when you ask that type of question on an online forum all you are asking is for people to tell you what THEY like and what works for THEM. If everyone here is honest they have to admit that none of us can tell you the exact right gun for you. The right gun for you is the one that works for you and you alone. I'm sorry but that's the reality of it. If I were you I would start by visiting a good gun shop, holding some guns, and talking to the employees. And move on from there. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I was about to recommend that. A large gun store with a great staff.
I would say a large frame revolver. That is because I have a giant hand. See the thing I find disconcerting is you think the things mentioned are off topic. That flat out worries me. For example if you ask for the best recommendation for a car and ignore engine size and gas mileage you will have strange opinions. One reason to use a revolver for home defence is simply it is far less likely to jam on you. A misfire is less likely and since the stated reason is home defense you want to minimize the odds of misfire. Since the only time you will really use it is under duress you need to think about it. Simple is better. During a home invasion very few people ever fire more than six shots. Plus large capacity magazines are now being banned in many jurisdictions so there is often little benefit to semi auto. Also a revolver us much easier to keep clean. Most people who use them only for home defense do not clean weapons as much as they should. This improper maintenance is what often leads to misfire. Sorry if this is of topic in your view. But in reality it IS the topic. Or do you just want list of weapons?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On Dec 11, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: That's the thing. I could rattle off a list of guns I own or would like to own. But that wouldn't really be helping Chessman. I'm not trying to be a jerk Chessman, I promise you. The stuff I touched on in my last post is really just the tip of the iceberg if someone is really trying to choose the best gun for themselves. From there you can go into a hundred other factors, and ways to personalize the gun. Do you prefer wood grips? Or some sort of synthetic? Maybe mother of pearl. Do you like finger grooves in your grip? Do you like U shaped rear sights? Maybe a shallow V? What looks good to you? What about the front sight? Do you prefer a thick front sight blade? Or a thin one? Which one is best for the application? On and on and on. I like talking about this stuff, but if being on topic just means making a list of the 25 most popular pistols, I guess I better shut my trap now. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea me too. Buying a gun is less about the gun and more about the person buying it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Theodore and some of the other guys who posted love Glocks. Nairb shot a Glock and it sliced his hand open. (that stings like hell BTW and will turn off to the gun that did it to you in a heartbeat).
So should you buy a Glock or not? |
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 11, 2014, Marlin1894 wrote: EXACTLY! I want to know what they like, what works for them, and WHY they feel that way! This is good information for my own use! Did you think I was just looking for names to drop into a hat? Far from it. When I ask that kind of question, I put out some parameters, and I also got many excellent answers regarding reliability, type of weapon (semi-auto vs. revolver, for example). When I ask that type of question, it was to receive some specific recommendations for firearms that people have personally found to be quality firearms. Who would not do this? I have then looked up reviews on these firearms to delve deeper into how they might work for me. I found good information on their recommendations. This has been very helpful - AND it has led to other possible choices. I have also asked others (not on this forum), but they fall into the same category - as being able to say only what works best for them. And as I did mention earlier - their recommendations led me to a much greater understanding of the importance of finding a firearm that works best for me. When you say, "I'm sorry, but that's the reality of it" that's rather insulting...an assumption that I don't understand already that what works for some won't work for all, or wouldn't attempt to 'try some on for size', or be willing to put in the effort to make a good choice. That's true about pretty much anything used in the hands. I think that point has been made here, anyway. What I can do, is take some of the recommendations I have seen here, and from others, and see what may or may not be best for me from that group of recommendations. Or, through this process, I might settle something that hasn't been recommended, at all. The recommendations I have received here have been a very valuable tool! Basically, what I have done is take the recommendations that people have made (and the advice they have offered), put in a good amount of effort the last few days, and received a great deal more good information. In the next few days I will be visiting some shops (= who have knowledgeable staff). What I have learned through the recommendations people have kindly given me here will help GREATLY in in interacting with the staff, and knowing the kinds of questions I should ask them. So, again, I really want to thank everyone who has put forth a recommendation and/or provided advice. I want you to know that I have acted on an learned from each one of them!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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