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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Well Done Ellusionist!! :/ (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

niva
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Malta (Europe)
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How did this end up on a movies and gaming website? Where has the secrecy gone to?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/12/e......ur-hands
Yours,

Ivan
Dougini
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The Beautiful State Of Maine
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Desperation. Gotta make a sale! Anyhow. Any way! Shaking my head ruefully...

Doug
Szymon Krzysztoszek
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I'm wondering if more casual people buy this or more magicians. Awful.
Michael Jay
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This ended up on a gaming site because gamers love being able to show their powers while playing their games. Gamers playing ninjas show up at a game dressed in ninja attire and oftentimes have ninja weapons on them; gamers playing warriors are known to show up in actual armor and have a sword or other medieval weaponry as props; gamers playing wizards will often look for magic props that show their power and something that launches a fireball is the ultimate gimmick for them. Gamers are just as passionate about what they do as any magician would be.

And where has the secrecy gone? Well that's something that we magicians have brought on ourselves. How often does someone review something claiming that they were mislead by the advertising? They put the product down, beating their chests over having bought the secret and how unfair it was to receive a product that was something that they never would have bought had they only known the method. The product in question, Ellusionist's "Pyro", is not allowing you to claim any of that. They are showing you what you're getting before you get it...If you've made a bad choice at this point, it is your own fault because they've fully disclosed the product before you bought it.

The fact of the matter is, though, if you have any background in pyro-magic, you already have an idea of what this product is. You can pick up a device for shooting a fire ball from your hand at Theater Effects (http://www.theatrefx.com/) and they even have a double barreled model in case you need to throw off two of them without reloading.

Needless to say, Ellusiont's product is nothing new and not particularly a big secret if you are into pyro effects (whether the magic industry or any other fire based industry).

Lastly, if there is any magic trick in this entire universe that you don't know how it's done, just google it. Everyone and their little brother can find out how you've done any of your tricks as long as they have access to google. Secrets don't exist for magicians anymore and that is mainly the fault of magicians. Their desire to sell anything that they think they've invented and their marketing techniques have brought about this sad state of affairs in magic. Don't blame Ellusionist for their marketing technique, just take a look in the mirror if you really want to know why methods are so easily learned.

Mike.
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Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2014, niva wrote:
How did this end up on a movies and gaming website? Where has the secrecy gone to?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/12/e......ur-hands


I actually think in a case like this. It is a very limited market among magicians and SOMEONE is in the business of selling this device to as many buyers as they can get, wherever they draw them from. Yes, I use flash products from time to time but just as a band who uses pyrotechnics during a gig. It is really just a "shock moment" or misdirection if you will. I don't see it as really giving away a secret of "Magic"
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niva
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Michael Jay I totally don't agree.

Yes gamers are very passionate and I am both a magician and a gamer. Tat video did not end up on that particular site because gamers are passionate, but rather the manufacturer himself put it on youtube and all over the places. This wasn't a video on a secret forum or a website with a secret password. It's blatantly on youtube, put by the same manufacturer.

Yes I am one of those that was mislead multiple times by false advertising. I am not talking about having bought something that wasn't for me and not having known in advance because of the secret. I am talking about blatantly hiding the stupid secret, like one effect sold in the UK, that promised to "scare" the specs with a bizarre effect and it ended up being a stupid banger. That's what I mean by mislead. Or showing a video and editing the bad moments.

There are ways of putting a video and showing the right moments without revealing too much, at least to the lay people. Jay Sankey is such a magician. He hides nothing in his videos and I admire him for that.

I know that today it's easy to get hold of information and magic secrets, but at the same time it takes some effort on the interested party. Magic books have always been accessible in public libraries anyway, but few lay people actually look at them. So that argument is irrelevant really. Putting such a video in the open, that surely isn't helping. There are many trailers for magic effects all over youtube with the website's name and where to get hold of them and yet none ended up on a gaming website.

And you said it yourself, Pyro is nothing knew. Rick Haslett even has 4 and 6-barrel shooters.
Yours,

Ivan
Michael Jay
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Imagine that - a manufacturer who openly advertises their wares. Let me see if I have this straight...A manufacturer wants to make money off of their product, so instead of keeping it as secretive as they can, they actually market the product to as wide an audience as they can. Okay, I can't speak for them but I can certainly speak for me. If I'm trying to make money off of my product, I'm going to want to sell that product as openly, and in as many markets, as I can.

Further, gamers aren't like magicians. Magicians will buy up any old garbage as long as it's eye candy, regardless of anything else and they'll be docile when they get something that they're unhappy with because "they bought the secret." Gamers, on the other hand, want an actual value for their money and they aren't going to spend their hard earned cash on something that they have no idea what they're getting.

So you have this company selling this product to a wide variety of buyers and they're giving full disclosure as to what you're getting. I don't see the downside, here. Also, I'm told that magician's secrets are no big deal so quit worrying so much about the secrets that are openly found in every corner of the internet. I don't agree with that, but I've come to accept it (which is why I keep my own creations to myself).

Lastly, I don't know how you can believe that a 30 second search on Google could possibly be a hardship...But if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe.

Mike.
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Michael Jay
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Oops, forgot to mention the paradox that's set up when you claim that their way of selling their product reveals too much of the secret and then explain that it's difficult to find secrets on the internet...

Think about it.

Mike.
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niva
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Yes it's not that easy to find secrets on the Internet, unless you know the exact name of the effect and unless you openly shove the secret right into their faces like this video here. Some common sense would tell you that publishing the secret openly and promoting it is not helping with the secrecy.
Yours,

Ivan
Michael Jay
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I Googled, "chosen card upside down in deck magic trick revealed" and the third answer down was "The Invisible Deck." There were also a lot of other links exposing all kinds of different tricks.

Seriously, it's just not as hard as you seem to think it is.

Mike.
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niva
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Ok then let's just all help with exposing videos that are just supposed to market the item!

I don't get your logic.
Yours,

Ivan
Michael Jay
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It isn't a matter of logic, it's a matter of fact. You wondered how gamers got their hands on the video marketing an item that they would have a specific interest in. I explained and you disagreed, saying that it was hard to find secrets online without knowing the name of a trick. I again disagreed and showed you just how easy it was (and it is terribly easy).

I'm not claiming that I appreciate this fact, only that it is a fact.

Welcome to the information age. This age of information brought a great deal of benefits with it including making magic more accessible to the general populace. The downside was that since the information was easily obtained, the respect for our secrets (you know, that 'empty box') and the intrinsic value of learning something that was previously difficult to learn has taken a nose dive (it's hard to understand the value of something when you can get your hands on it in a minute or two and costs nothing).

The result of all of this is manufacturers looking for the biggest profits they can get at the cost of selling out our hobby/profession. Unlike you and me, these folks don't care about anything other than the bottom line (money). Again, I'm not saying that I like it, only that it is the fact.

Finally, by starting this topic you've helped to give this product even more exposure...Another paradox.

Mike.
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