The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » The WORST trick of 2014 *** (33 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
Merc Man
View Profile
Inner circle
NUNEATON, Warwickshire
2496 Posts

Profile of Merc Man
Agree with that Stucky BUT, and here's the real problem these days - magic effects are being improperly marketed as something that they really aren't.........via hype; YouTube vids that have been either doctored, carefully filmed to overcome angle/handling problems (or both); and in some cases just pure lies.

Others fall for believing that everything released by a particular creator is going to be a golden nugget. A recent packet trick released by a well known name, is nothing other than a clusterfkk of utter confusion.

And don't even get me started on endorsements from the 'big names' - many of who are most likely to be on a nice little earner simply for endorsing a particular product.

If people didn't keep falling for this SCAM of 'PRE-ORDER' then it's my honest opinion that a lot of this dross would stop being released onto the market in the first place. If a new trick released gets unfavourable feedback for whatever reason(s), then people know where they stand. Magicians really deserve everything they get (or rather don't get) by continuing to support our wonderful magic dealers who use this ploy.

It always reminds me of the saying 'take the money and run'. How people keep falling for it is beyond me.
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
george1953
View Profile
Inner circle
Mallorca (Spain)
5943 Posts

Profile of george1953
I just don't get the whole pre order thing at all. You wouldn't put up with it in any other industry, its just a way of funding something as far as I can see. I never do it, but folks do, it will continue.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
Merc Man
View Profile
Inner circle
NUNEATON, Warwickshire
2496 Posts

Profile of Merc Man
I think it's also a case George of 'pre-orders' simply enabling magic dealers to get as much dosh in the bank as quickly as possible - before the community realises that something is, in reality, an utter pile of garbage.

Ken Brooke is the only dealer that I've ever known that offered a 100% money back guarantee on everything that he ever sold.

Would a dealer do that these days I wonder? Not a chance.

But then again, Ken Brooke was a magic dealer that sold 100% commercial, well-made props; whilst providing written instructions (and after-sales sheets) that have never been bettered. He furthered the art of magic with his advice, instruction and ongoing support.

To my mind, the vast majority of dealers these days are in this game for one very simple reason. To make as much money as possible, and as quickly as possible, by selling absolutely anything......and to anyone.
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
CarlMcCoy
View Profile
Elite user
466 Posts

Profile of CarlMcCoy
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, george1953 wrote:
I just don't get the whole pre order thing at all. You wouldn't put up with it in any other industry, its just a way of funding something as far as I can see. I never do it, but folks do, it will continue.


Not to step on any 'pre-order is wank' toes, but pre-orders exist in many industries, not just magic. However, it seems to be in magic (or this forum mostly) that the most people hate them.

Never really understood why...in the main, one is really only ensuring that he/she gets hold of a product from a first run batch before anyone else to avoid disappointment. Nothing wrong with that.

Obviously if a product is not ready to ship, then many things can stop it from shipping...and also one cannot read reviews of a pre-order as no one else has it yet.

But I've only been burnt on a pre-order a few times. And 90% of those were cases where I'd have been disappointed even if I'd waited as the methodology just turned out to be something that I'd not really end up using. Didn't make them bad tricks or bad purchases.


Anyway...
pegasus
View Profile
Eternal Order
United Kingdom
10392 Posts

Profile of pegasus
You know exactly what you're going to get in 'other industries' though. Not the case with magic effects, Quite the opposite. And it's the old chestnut 'no refunds cos you know the secret ploy'. And, actually, in 'other industries' no money is taken from your bank account until the day of dispatch.
videoman
View Profile
Inner circle
6217 Posts

Profile of videoman
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, george1953 wrote:
I just don't get the whole pre order thing at all. You wouldn't put up with it in any other industry, its just a way of funding something as far as I can see. I never do it, but folks do, it will continue.


I pre-ordered an Amazon Firestick back in October and was given a delivery date of December 23, but I actually received it a couple weeks early.
BUT, it said the regular price would be $39.00 and if you pre-ordered it only cost $19.00. So that was the incentive. Many, if not most, magic pre-orders do not offer a discounted price, although some do. The Firestick is now listed at the regular price with a delivery date of late January, so I was happy I ordered when I did, especially since I really like the product so far.

I rarely pre-order magic but coincidentally have happened to pre-order 3 magic effects in the last week or two. I am generally not opposed to the concept of pre-ordering in magic but I do agree that with certain effects it quite possibly allows them to generate a lot more sales than they otherwise would.
Then again, you are free to pre-order or not. I have yet to be burned by a pre-order but I only do it when I feel certain the product will be something I will like.
We'll see if I am happy with all 3 of effects I am now waiting to receive.
taller8
View Profile
Inner circle
Olympia, Washington
1084 Posts

Profile of taller8
"Ken Brooke is the only dealer that I've ever known that offered a 100% money back guarantee on everything that he ever sold.

Would a dealer do that these days I wonder? Not a chance. "


I believe Penguin Magic offers a return policy, so Yes, there is a chance.
videoman
View Profile
Inner circle
6217 Posts

Profile of videoman
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Merc Man wrote:


Ken Brooke is the only dealer that I've ever known that offered a 100% money back guarantee on everything that he ever sold.

Would a dealer do that these days I wonder? Not a chance.



Dominic Reyes at Merchant of Magic, based in the UK, has talked quite a bit about his company's return policy here on the Café.
I believe he offers a full refund for up to one year from purchase. So that may be something for you to look into if you haven't already.

Also, I have had no problems returning items to Penguin, they are always great about it.
Merc Man
View Profile
Inner circle
NUNEATON, Warwickshire
2496 Posts

Profile of Merc Man
Looking at Penguin Magic's website, they actually state to contact them if you aren't happy with something and they'll (quote) 'figure out a way to make things right'. That doesn't really say to me that they're offering a 100% money back guarantee.

As for Merchant of Magic, their policy for returns (apart from faulty items and media) states that you are buying the secret, etc. No mention whatsoever here either that they operate a 100% refund policy.

So, anyone else want to (incorrectly) provide me with any more magic dealers that (don't) appear to offer an unconditional 100% refund if not fully satisfied? Smile
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
TuneHV
View Profile
Inner circle
New York
1929 Posts

Profile of TuneHV
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
Looking at Penguin Magic's website, they actually state to contact them if you aren't happy with something and they'll (quote) 'figure out a way to make things right'. That doesn't really say to me that they're offering a 100% money back guarantee.

As for Merchant of Magic, their policy for returns (apart from faulty items and media) states that you are buying the secret, etc. No mention whatsoever here either that they operate a 100% refund policy.

So, anyone else want to (incorrectly) provide me with any more magical dealers that (don't) appear to offer an unconditional 100% refund if not fully satisfied? Smile


Here is their return form:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/returnform.php

I've returned quite a few items and have never had an issue getting refunded or store credit (whichever I asked for).
David Jonathan
- - - - - - - - -
www.davidjonathanmagic.com
Merc Man
View Profile
Inner circle
NUNEATON, Warwickshire
2496 Posts

Profile of Merc Man
Yes, and?

I could send you an application form for a Commercial Pilot's Licence........that doesn't mean to say that you'll one day be flying an Airbus A380, does it?

Suffice to say IF a company IS offering an unconditional '100% refund if not satisfied' policy, then surely they'd make it crystal clear; instead of resorting to potentially spurious wording.

Maybe someone from Penguin could inform us accordingly? A simple Yes or No would suffice.
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
ArtIn
View Profile
Inner circle
1500 Posts

Profile of ArtIn
Agree, worst thread ever.
TuneHV
View Profile
Inner circle
New York
1929 Posts

Profile of TuneHV
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
Yes, and?

I could send you an application form for a Commercial Pilot's Licence........that doesn't mean to say that you'll one day be flying an Airbus A380, does it?

Suffice to say IF a company IS offering an unconditional '100% refund if not satisfied' policy, then surely they'd make it crystal clear; instead of resorting to potentially spurious wording.

Maybe someone from Penguin could inform us accordingly? A simple Yes or No would suffice.



You only stated that Penguin offers to 'figure out a way to make things right'- I further pointed out that on their return form, there is a check box for a refund to be credited to you. that's how they make things right.

If you really insist that someone from Penguin post that the refund is 100%, then so be it, I'm just telling you that I've never had any issue and have returned multiple items.
David Jonathan
- - - - - - - - -
www.davidjonathanmagic.com
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1429 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
This is a pretty negative thread so I'd normally abandon it, but as my company was mentioned, I'd just like to clarify:

Merchant of Magic have a 1 year return policy, so you have 365 days to decide if you want to return an item.

I really have no interest in forcing a customer to keep a prop they wouldn't use, that's no way to keep a long term relationship. My job as a magic dealer is to help magicians build their acts, not fill up their magic drawers with unused items they never got around to returning. At the same time, I'd quite like to stay in business, so we give store credit so something else can be chosen instead. Its a huge overhead to run, but luckily we got big enough to take that hit in exchange for giving a better service.

Our returns policy is no holy grail, but it's an attempt to be fair and helpful to both customers and magic creators, stay commercially viable, and build relationships. It's designed so you can order a trick, then take your time to decide if you want to keep it or swap it for something else instead.
More details
http://www.magicshop.co.uk/a26/365_Day_R......nfo.html

Hope this helps
Dominic

P.s As for pre-orders: they work great for dealers, creators, and those customers that want an item the moment it's available. Nobody's arm is twisted... In fact we shy away from offering extra bonus deals on pre-orders for that exact reason. If a creator has made a new product, pre-order allows me to know roughly in advance how many to get in ready for launch day. Without it, we often won't have enough in stock as it's quite a skill to judge what items will fly, bomb, or just sell at a steady rate. Pre-order doesn't tend to increase sales, as a customer that pre-orders tends to not order again until the pre-order has been delivered.
Dominic Reyes
View Profile
Inner circle
Got to a gig too early so wrote his
1429 Posts

Profile of Dominic Reyes
I'd also like to point out that Penguin, E, Hocus-pocus etc etc all have great return policies too, we all want happy customers. That's how we grew over time. If you call a respected magic dealer they will generally bend over backwards to try to keep you happy. There's simply no point poisoning a long term relationship over a few dollars.
Wizard of Oz
View Profile
Inner circle
Most people wish I didn't have
5009 Posts

Profile of Wizard of Oz
I've never ordered from you Dominic, but I will certainly think about it in the future. I appreciate the candor and insights. I think a lot of dealers lose sight of what it is to be a customer on the other side of the fence.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
mndude
View Profile
Special user
861 Posts

Profile of mndude
Speaking of bad magic tricks, has anyone heard an update on Ellusionist and if they will come out with those colored smoke cartridges for Pure Smoke that they promised a while ago? I have been patient, but I'm starting to think this is taking a while.

I wonder if I can return my PS still if they don't release this soon.
videoman
View Profile
Inner circle
6217 Posts

Profile of videoman
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
Looking at Penguin Magic's website, they actually state to contact them if you aren't happy with something and they'll (quote) 'figure out a way to make things right'. That doesn't really say to me that they're offering a 100% money back guarantee.



So, anyone else want to (incorrectly) provide me with any more magic dealers that (don't) appear to offer an unconditional 100% refund if not fully satisfied? Smile


Okay Grandpa Grumpy, we were just trying to help you by providing you with our own personal experiences regarding Penguin returns, but I realize now that you weren't really interested in that, you just like to complain how nothing is as good as it was decades ago. But if you were to ever try actually using Penguin's return policy I think you would find that the information provided was not incorrect. But I can't imagine that even back in the good ol' days you were ever any fun to be around. Do you think you could turn down the negativity a few notches, just for holidays?
Ray Haining
View Profile
Inner circle
Hot Springs, AR
1907 Posts

Profile of Ray Haining
Back in the good ol' days, you bought the trick, you bought the secret, no refunds--ever.

There were a lot fewer tricks being offered for sale back then, though.

So, if some dealers will give you a refund if you are dissatisfied with a purchase, that's a good thing, but you can see how that sort of thing could get out of control.
Merc Man
View Profile
Inner circle
NUNEATON, Warwickshire
2496 Posts

Profile of Merc Man
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Ray Haining wrote:
Back in the good ol' days, you bought the trick, you bought the secret, no refunds--ever.

There were a lot fewer tricks being offered for sale back then, though.


1. Wrong. Ken Brooke, on EVERY advert and Instruction sheet, stated 100% money-back guarantee if not fully satisfied. So from 1967-1981, there was a dealer that did off refunds - always.

2. Amen to that. There were a lot better magicians around as well; including dealers that could actually dem!

Just to add that I'm not grumpy, I just have a different perspective than most others. In the same manner that I do celebrate Christmas - but for the RIGHT reasons. Not for the commercialised, present-receiving, over-indulgence and frivolity apparently enjoyed by most people these days. A brainwashed automaton I'm not.
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » The WORST trick of 2014 *** (33 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2023 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL