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Ray Haining
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OK, so Ken Brooke was the always-present exception to the rule.

I do disagree that there were a lot better magicians around back then. Dealers could demo their products because there were a lot fewer effects offered for sale back then. There's been an explosion of magic products in the last 20 years.

At every time and place, there are always those who pine for the "good ol' days." These longings, however, are mostly based on fantasy, not reality.
Gaz Lawrence
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The best thing is to only use dealers who take pay pal then if you don't like the effect you can get your full monies back and not just a credit note within a certain time frame obviously Smile
Gaz Lawrence
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The fact that Dominic and others go the extra mile with 1 year credit note is very commendable Smile
Gaz Lawrence
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However I have never returned one magic effect ever , hence I have a few drawer fulls Smile as never realised then you could do such a thing with magic as buying the secret Smile
Trevah Whateva
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Dominic Reyes wrote:
I'd also like to point out that Penguin, E, Hocus-pocus etc etc all have great return policies too, we all want happy customers. That's how we grew over time. If you call a respected magic dealer they will generally bend over backwards to try to keep you happy. There's simply no point poisoning a long term relationship over a few dollars.


I completely agree with Mr. Reyes on his comment above....well said, sir.

Our customer experience at Penguin is the foundation which we base our entire business on. I'm certain that anyone who has ever purchased anything at Penguin, and experienced any sort of issue or dissatisfaction, will agree that we've always taken very good care of them.
Merc Man
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NUNEATON, Warwickshire
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, Ray Haining wrote:
I do disagree that there were a lot better magicians around back then. Dealers could demo their products because there were a lot fewer effects offered for sale back then. There's been an explosion of magic products in the last 20 years.

Oh, the sheer irony of those words! Smile
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
itsmagic
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middle earth
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The majority of these posts have nothing to do with the topic. What a waste of time reading this.
Ray Haining
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, Ray Haining wrote:
I do disagree that there were a lot better magicians around back then. Dealers could demo their products because there were a lot fewer effects offered for sale back then. There's been an explosion of magic products in the last 20 years.


Oh, the sheer irony of those words!


Nothing ironic about them at all. I'm 65 and was around back then, in the 1960s and 1970s. I'm from New York and was a regular at Tannen's and even Flosso's (Al Flosso, that is, not his son). I was friends with Ronjo, who opened the only magic store in Suffolk County on Long Island in the late 1970s. I've met and known quite a number of famous magicians. I know what I'm talking about.
Gaz Lawrence
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, itsmagic wrote:
The majority of these posts have nothing to do with the topic. What a waste of time reading this.




That is because a similar thread already exists

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=109

😃
Merc Man
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The irony comes Ray from the very point that you make.

Tannens - I only remember with utter contempt for stealing Ken Brooke's effects. The stress that it caused Ken contributed to his first stroke - hence I despise their very name to this day.

I've read that Al Flosso (and his Son, Jack, I believe?) could dem and sell.

Alan Alan, Pat Page, Ken Brooke, etc........could ALL dem, and sell.

Suffice to say that the problem with magic these days is that far too much product is being released. Most 'creations' are nothing more than often sub-standard copies of (often uncredited) previous ideas. Every single little brainfart is seemingly bombarding the community; the majority of which appear to be overly-hyped; and many with carefully edited demos via YouTube, etc.

I saw two Dealer Dems last year at my local club. The demonstrators were an utter embarrassment - a disgrace to magic if I'm brutally honest. The same club in Coventry had another dealer dem just a few weeks ago. Feedback from three guys in attendance said the self-same thing. The guy apparently cannot dem a magic trick to save his bleedin' life - yet comes onto this forum apparently trying to share his apparent knowledge, and purchasing recommendations, with PROFESSIONAL PERFORMERS!

- Would you seriously call this situation good for magic?

- Do you really think that overkill in product release, that we are now seeing far too frequently, is good for magic?

I care passionately about this art form. It's been my hobby, and career, for the best part of the last 36 years.

But I am not blinkered to see through this charade of magic 'dealers' and their obsession with selling as much new stuff as possible. It's to make money. Pure and simple. Nothing wrong with that per se - we all have to live. But please don't try and convince me that, for the vast majority of magic dealers, it isn't anything else but a profit-making exercise. Many know absolutely nothing about performance; succinctly borne out by their sloppy, embarrassing dealer dems.

Harry Robson, Dave Bonsall (and a few others) are an exception. They sell commercial magic that they've worked themselves at professional engagements over many, many years. Ask them for advice, and you will be getting advice from a professional performer. Not from some Johnny come lately who simply doesn't understand the basics relating to the performance aspect of this business; but is more intent with keeping his warehouse stocked with the latest pile of one-trick DVD's to inflict upon those with clearly more money than the sense that they were born with.
Barry Allen

14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning.
MVoss
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Dominic Reyes wrote:
I'd also like to point out that Penguin, E, Hocus-pocus etc etc all have great return policies too, we all want happy customers. That's how we grew over time. If you call a respected magic dealer they will generally bend over backwards to try to keep you happy. There's simply no point poisoning a long term relationship over a few dollars.


I completely agree with Mr. Reyes on his comment above....well said, sir.

Our customer experience at Penguin is the foundation which we base our entire business on. I'm certain that anyone who has ever purchased anything at Penguin, and experienced any sort of issue or dissatisfaction, will agree that we've always taken very good care of them.

I can back this up, the very few times I've had trouble, Penguin has always gone the extra mile for me.
nattefrost
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I really don't see what the big deal is having a thread about your vote for your worst 3 effects of 2014. I actually like threads like this because I'm interested in hearing what people say about their worst (and best) effects of the year. I'm actually kind of surprised that people are so against this type of thread.... I know its been said a zillion times but if you don't like a certain type of thread then just don't read it. We're just having fun .
James Conti
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2014, nattefrost wrote:
I really don't see what the big deal is having a thread about your vote for your worst 3 effects of 2014. I actually like threads like this because I'm interested in hearing what people say about their worst (and best) effects of the year. I'm actually kind of surprised that people are so against this type of thread.... I know its been said a zillion times but if you don't like a certain type of thread then just don't read it. We're just having fun .


Amen. Can we just use this thread for it's intended purpose?
Here are my worst three:

Hidden Hand by Sean Fields - after hours of frustration trying to make the gimmick, I performed it in my set and EVERY single time someone pointed out the gimmick. I mean you can actually see it. Also, I didn't like the ad copy deception.

Magnetic Deck by Granell - pure rubbish. Biggest waste of my time and money ever.

The Switch by Shin Lim - just genuinely didn't like it.
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nattefrost
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I can at least give you my # 1 pic for worst effect...the other 2 I have to think about.
1- Million Dollar Baby- you tap a pen on your hand and a bill appears. So impractical, pen looks ridiculous, a zillion pieces just to set it up, nowhere near inspectible (pen, Bill, hand- nothing). Kind of like the "appearing flower in pot" where you tap the magic wand in an empty pot and a flower appears- and I like that one... but this one has too many pieces and gadgets and just looks like junk too. Instructions even try to show you a crazy way to show the back of the bill after the appearance- just can't be done. I'd rather have "Braco's Floating Ball" than have this one.
3ofclubs
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, Merc Man wrote:
Looking at Penguin Magic's website, they actually state to contact them if you aren't happy with something and they'll (quote) 'figure out a way to make things right'. That doesn't really say to me that they're offering a 100% money back guarantee.

As for Merchant of Magic, their policy for returns (apart from faulty items and media) states that you are buying the secret, etc. No mention whatsoever here either that they operate a 100% refund policy.

So, anyone else want to (incorrectly) provide me with any more magic dealers that (don't) appear to offer an unconditional 100% refund if not fully satisfied? Smile


In the UK at least, we're protected by the distance selling act. So a retailer is legally obliged to refund you for any reason whatsoever. Secret/schmecret.
Jamie Ferguson
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Guys, rather than derail this thread, check out this thread to discuss the dirty tricks some dealers are now using to separate you form your cashish...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=98

The one you just mentioned is called "The secret sell".
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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