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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
PATTER (ˈpætə) - Meaningless talk; chatter.
Used in a sentence: vb. 1. So, I'm doing my closer and I start to patter about why the coins are actually clowns in the circus. 2. I was doing some strolling last night and realized I was sounding like I was pattering. Ewwww.... n. 3. As a magician, nothing is more embarrassing to me than to listen to another magician's ridiculous patter. I just smile and nod, smile and nod. 4. So.. do you have any good patter for this trick? Mind if I..... use it? adj. 5. I really need to work to keep my presentation more engaging and interactive. Mine is too patteresque The last thing I want.. is to sound like I'm pattering. I hate when that happens.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Frank, if you don't mind, I'd like to play devil's advocate for just a moment. You have given one definition of the word "patter." But, "patter," like perhaps all words, can have more than one meaning. I submit that the word "patter" might be magician's jargon for the script of a routine's presentation. In that context, "patter" might not be "meaningless talk or chatter" at all. "Patter" can be deep, mysterious, humorous, touching, emotional, etc.
When I first got into magic as a boy, the magic books I read talked about "patter." To me, the term did not have a negative, "meaningless" connotation. It had a positive, the presentation/script is important, connotation. I've got to admit it still has a positive connotation to me now. But, maybe that's just me. Jay |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I think this is splitting hairs. The word "patter" is a catch-all word used by magicians meaning what is spoken during the presentation of a trick. We all know what it means, and it is likely one of the first things we learn in magic.
This is like blaming a lousy book on the definition of a book, rather than the author.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, Michael Baker wrote: I suppose you are right. At the same time, I have been chastised in the past for using the word "patter." I understand it has a negative connotation for some people. If so, perhaps the words "script" or "presentation" will feel better to them. The word "patter" does not carry a negative connotation for me. When I learned it as a child reading my first books on magic, I felt like I was more a part of the group. I had learned some of the jargon (specialized vocabulary) of magicians. And that felt good. Jay |
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cheesewrestler Inner circle Chicago 1157 Posts |
Quote:
the word "patter." I understand it has a negative connotation for some people. So what? |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, cheesewrestler wrote: What he said.^^
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Gordon the discombobulator Loyal user 246 Posts |
Patter is what magicians say to disguise the fact that they are concentrating on the technique.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, Gordon the discombobulator wrote: I think your definition of the term "PATTER" is subjective, and cynical. When I talk WITH (not AT or TO audiences, it's a CONVERSATION, not a SPEECH. Any techniques involved in the performance of any trick that I perform, have been PRACTICED, so that they are automatic. Then the entire show is REHEARSED, so that I am able to perform and handle any sort of situation that may develop.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Well, I think the"so what" question relates to the fact that some people can become pretty negative toward others who use language that has a negative connotation for them. No big deal. But, it does illustate some of the power of words, in my opinion.
Jay |
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, cheesewrestler wrote: I had to leave a bit ago. To answer this question further, understanding this fact can help to explain why some people do not like the word "patter" and might get upset when others use it. I understand their feelings even though I do not share them. Jay |
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote: Mr Oslund, From your stellar reputation, I am sure that your "patter" or "script" or "presentation" or whatever you want to call it is professional and entertaining! Jay |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
I am one who does use "Patter".
I'll say, "I've found a way to combine 3 of my interests in this next demonstration" or "What should we name this primary color Caterpillar?" and the like. I don't like every aspect of it but sometimes I find it better than just describing the action, I.E., "Now I will take these four cards and place them at the top of the deck, and mix them into the deck." (Which would also be called patter.) There is nothing wrong with a story, a simile, a reference, a straight description or not talking at all if it serves the illusion and it is done well. I think you don't like hackneyed, poorly acted patter, Frank. I don't think any of us does but we are having trouble finding or writing something better. I doubt I am the only one struggling with this. What do you think someone should say as they perform if anything? Is there a specific way of thinking about it that you think would set someone in the right direction? -Mary Mowder |
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Gordon the discombobulator Loyal user 246 Posts |
I was being a bit flippant with my comment above.
What I hate with a passion is any performer who just gives you a running commentary about what they are doing. E.g. I put this card here, I snap my fingers, and your card has changed into a different card. I agree with posts above. It should be a dialogue, a story, a conversation between the performer and the audience. E.g. Do you recall a time when your memory played tricks on you? you put your car keys down on a table (place their card down) then you went to make a cup of tea and when you came back the keys were not there (turn card over.) You know that feeling ? yes. Happens to me all the time. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
When I was young I liked the fact that "becoming a magician" had its own special language including Sleight, Patter and Misdirection. These were like secret passwords for admission to a club.
I later learned that many wished to make a distinction between "suggest script that came in the box" and "creating your own character and stories." It is all still Patter. Much later I learned that some people like to "put other down" my making light of their special terms and methods. Salesmen use a "spiel" or "line" and politicians echo "the party line." As a speaking professional and trainer I always attempted to have a scripted core outline and practiced lines that allowed me to personalize my presentation, perhaps 90% practiced and 10% improve. Just me. When I present a magic effect (conjury or mentalism) I follow the same general approach. I do not want it known that I have a memorized/practiced script any more than that I have a practice sleight. This is part of the illusion -- a small deception the supports the concept of being able to control magic -- if even for a little while. So, I suggest that the word Patter be retained as the core of a practiced presentation -- just as a reminder that practice is the core of a good presentation. Nobody ever taught me the secret handshake though.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 22, 2014, Gordon the discombobulator wrote: OK Gordon! I accept your explanation. It would 'help' if you 'attached' an "LOL" when you make that type of atatement! heehee I honestly thought that you were serious in your comment. There are quite probably some who post here who would "second" your "opinion"! Descriptive, or narrative patter (as in your "E.g.") is a major irritant to me, too. When I was associated with the School Assembly Service, and, later, National School Assemblies, as a program consultant, I attended the auditions for potential new talent. Those auditioning with a magic program, were often the worst offenders, in their use of narrative type patter, or just plain bad grammar, or poor vocabulary. The company always invited a committee of school administrators to express their opinions regarding the suitability of program content, and how the program was performed/delivered. Some of those auditioning, just appeared to "wing it" when it came to talking! One "thirtyish" man arrived carrying a large cardboard carton with an Abbott shipping label. The carton was still sealed. He opened it, scanned the various instruction sheets, put the props on a card table, and auditioned. It was worse than awful. Some people still seem to think that they can "buy" some tricks, print some business cards that say "professional magician", and, automatically, they are one.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi Ken!
I never was taught the secret handshake--or--the password either! --And, I was number 6 7/8 in the SECRET SIX! Maybe I should request a return of my initiaion fee! Hey! I'm also an "Order of Merlin, EXCELSIOR in the I Bother Magicians", and, a Jade Tier member of the Some Are Magicians! I WAS an Associate of the Inner Magic Circle (with Gold Star), but I resigned. I even belonged as a 14 year old,to Vernon Lux's "Internationsl Society of Junior Magicians". Your post above, says "it" well, Thanks! I'm "outa here"....
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Parts of this conversation have become defining the different types of patter. It seems agreeable to most that "expository" patter is the low man on the pole. There is a point too, when more flowery words become ridiculous. When I was a kid, tricks came with instructions that sometimes included suggested patter. It didn't take me long to realize that telling the audience (usually my friends and family) about my recent trip to Egypt was not the way to go. I soon found my own voice.
I still use the word patter. Say it to me, and I know exactly what you are talking about. There is a time and place for expository patter. This is when the action is not enough to clarify the plot at that moment. But in most cases, the audience can put 2+2 together. Some of these time (SOME of these times) are good times for saying something else. Still, this is what I call patter. It may be too much patter, but it's still patter.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Patter.
Everyone uses it. The difference is how it sounds coming out of one's mouth. Do you sound like you're just reciting a script or are you actually engaging and interacting? When patter becomes "reciting a script", that is what I am referring to. I try to work to keep that from happening but I admit on occasion I feel like I am not doing as good a job as I could be.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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JayF Regular user 160 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 23, 2014, Frank Starsini wrote: Hey Frank, I'm sure most of us can understand. A number of actors I've talked to have mentioned that this is one of their great challenges. How do you make a memorized script sound spontaneous and genuine when you are saying the same words over and over again? I don't have any easy answers. I think your self-awareness and your desire to remain engaging are probably the most important keys to being successful, better than any "tips." Maybe I'll have to ask those actors what they do the next time I talk to them! Good luck! And if you discover any good ideas about this, please share!!! Jay |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote: When I talk WITH (not AT or TO audiences, it's a CONVERSATION, not a SPEECH. This is very much what I'm talking about. The same script can sound like a conversation or it can sound like a speech. We need to work at this. From watching performances, it seems too many are too quick to stop once they memorize the words. Jay, One of the things I do is to purposely add words and phrases to my scripts that seem "off-the-cuff" and are essentially completely irrelevant, otherwise. Most are humorous and invite feedback. I also try to pause and listen to things that are said, and react genuinely, instead of ignoring the spectator and plowing thru with my "patter".
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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