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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » A tangled web we weave... » » Getting a refund - next time you get ripped off by your favorite magic dealer (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

pookndale
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I just learned something the hard way about getting a refund when you purchase magic (or whatever) with Paypal. Doesn't work. Contrary to the policy of Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express - who almost always side with the buyer in the case of a dispute - Paypal sides with the seller. If the goods were delivered to you, no matter how fraudulently they were advertised or what arrived in the box, Paypal in general sides with the seller and does NOT issue a refund. I learned the the hard way from my experience purchasing the Expert Deck from Haim Goldenberg. The deck was sent back to Mr. Goldenberg based upon his promise to refund my $35. He did not. Paypal then strongly refused to issue a refund. Four heated emails later, with the promise I would take Paypal to small claims court - Paypal made an exception and issued a one-time credit to my account. In the past, I have received refunds from Hank Lee, Brad Burt, Stevens and Hocus Pocus when I felt I had been defrauded. All of these refunded charges were placed on a credit card not Paypal, and my belief is that the credit card company would have sided with me had I been forced to file a claim of false advertising. In addition, I used to be a fairly regular customer of all 4 of these vendors, and my guess is that they did not want to lose me as a customer at the time. The bottom line here is that if you think you might want to return something, magic or whatever, DO NOT pay for it with Paypal. - Bill Nagler, http://www.25offmagic.com
Steve Hart
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Palm Bay, FL
382 Posts

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Hey Bill, I understand your frustration when your expectations are not met.

But why are you asking Paypal to refund your money, I would be asking only the person who sold me the trick. Even then I would ask for my money back only if it was broken or it was out-right fraud. I have purchased a number of bad ideas over the years.

Let me point out that over 80% of the people who want a refund, they decided they would ask for a refund before they placed the order. This has been a tested fact in direct mail and Internet sales.

As a small boy reading the ads in the magic catalogs until now, I am not sure I ever really got in mail exactly what I expected. My imagination would run wild thinking of what I had read and what the trick would look like. Many times I was very disappointed.

Later on I began to understand that the magic was created by me not just the props.

When I was young I was instructed, "Once the secret is told, the magic trick is sold" that meant no refunds. Whatever happened to those days?

Steve Hart
Cape Canaveral, FL USA
www.SteveHartSpeaks.com
www.magic2motivate.com
"Motivational Magicians are some of the highest paid magicians, find out why?"
thehawk
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2275 Posts

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Steve, have you seen the Expert Deck. Don't blame anybody for getting ticked off.
I believe it was $35 for a reversed card.
Davidicus
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Look Ma!
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<<Let me point out that over 80% of the people who want a refund, they decided they would ask for a refund before they placed the order.>>

With all due respect, are you sure about this? I could see 80% having buyers remorse, but to decide on a refund beforehand, I have never heard (or read) that.
GaryW
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HSMagic
317 Posts

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Quote:
On 2004-02-02 11:42, Deceptionguy wrote:
<<Let me point out that over 80% of the people who want a refund, they decided they would ask for a refund before they placed the order.>>

With all due respect, are you sure about this? I could see 80% having buyers remorse, but to decide on a refund beforehand, I have never heard (or read) that.


It's 80% of those that actually request refunds which is a much smaller percentage of all actual buyers.

Some people just have that mentality.. "I'll try it and take it back"...
Gary Ailes
Hot Shot Magic
www.hotshotmagic.com
JJDrew
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Arizona
221 Posts

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That 80% seems a bit high, but a fair number of people do try to buy things at our shop just to learn the secret and immediately demand a refund. Luckily, they usually mention their intent before the purchase so we can explain that we don't refund money on magic tricks. The conversation usually runs something like this...

Customer: So, if I buy it, you'll tell me how it works, right?

Seller: That's right.

Customer: Ok, can I buy one and then get my money right back?

Seller: Nope, that's not how it works. You buy the knowledge as much as the effect.

Customer: Oh, never mind then.

At least they're smart enough to ask in advance. If we allowed refunds on magic, there are people who would buy a trick, learn the mechanism, exchange it, learn the michanism for the new one, exchange it, etc, ad infinitum.

That doesn't mean we NEVER do refunds. If we sell something and it is defective, broken, or does not do what the packaging states it will we make exceptions to our policy. The posted policy is mainly to discourage buying by the idly curious.
Daniel J. Ferrara Jr.
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Long Island, New York
182 Posts

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I can understand being dissapointed when a trick isn't all that I thought it would be. However, Bill, maybe you should do more research before you make a purchase. I mean, from you post you have mentioned at least 5 times that you had to return an effect. Maybe you should try to find a demo video before you buy a new trick.
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
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I don't often get ripped off. Perhaps it is because I ask a lot of questions before I buy. Most dealers are happy to answer questions, if you ask the right questions.

For example, ask if a trick will work under your performing conditions. Ask educated questions and you will seldom have to return a trick.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Rob Johnston
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Utah
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I don't use paypal. It takes a bit longer for my stuff to get here, but it is worth the wait.

I won't even bid or buy if someone only excepts paypal.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Bob Johnston
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Philadelphia, PA
1251 Posts

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In our magic shop a large sign reads:
YOUR PURCHASE BUYS THE SECRET AND THE TRICK>
I think this is a general understanding when it comes to magic. We refund (or replace) any defective product. If I think a customer REALLY misunderstood the difficulty of the trick, we may do something for them.

However, if someone routinely returns stuff that they think was miss advertised, perhaps they should find out more about the trick before they make the purchase.

Bob
Futureal
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Profile of Futureal
It's nothing to do with PayPal, they're just the intermediary..

What you tried to do is the same as going to your bank, getting a money order, posting it, getting your product, not liking it, then demanding that your bank give you back your money for the money order because you don't like the product.

- Don't blame PayPal.
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