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Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts |
Believe me, Robb, I gave it a lot of practice.
I was using US quarters. Were you? That would be a VERY desirable thing for me to be able to do, so believe me, I tried.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine |
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Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts |
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On Jul 15, 2015, Garbo wrote: I did! But at least I got my money back.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine |
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Garbo Regular user 138 Posts |
Me too! Thought they'd mixed mine with a free gift from a packet of cereal! 😳
Anyway - this isn't about that product. Sorry all. Just trying to lighten the mood. Seems to be a lot of negativity - I was always brought up with the age old saying " if you e nothing nice to say......." |
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
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On Jul 15, 2015, Jack Straw wrote: Jack, it states specifically in the free chapter that: "it would appear the majority of US coins are too thin, however some report that you can get good results with a Nickel." Visiting the states in April, I too experimented with Nickels and they work well. My friend Patrick Redford also uses Nickels and lectured his take on the move in his recent second Penguin LIVE lecture.
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
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On Jul 15, 2015, Robb wrote: Hi Robb, What a great post! I fully agree with most of what you said there. You stated that "First, a REAL working pro works *** hard for not a lot of money and isn't going to spend $400-500 on a book without strong conviction that it will produce a professional return for them." I fully agree with that assertion and the mindset behind it. You asked me the last book that I paid that much for? It was Andy Nyman's Bulletproof. As with Looch's Black Project, Bulletproof is a book that represents a decade of Andy's work and I was confident that it would help me "produce a professional return". The only reason I was comfortable paying that much was because I knew the man worked a lot, he had a great reputation, and I was sure I'd learn something from him rather than having to reinvent the wheel. That's the kind of thing that I think a worker will be able to justify paying that much for. So, as regards the argument that a professional will happily pay high prices for material - I think it depends on the reputation of the person selling it, but as a matter of course I think a performer looks at stuff like this and has to be able to justify his purchase based upon his expected return. Lots of projects flatly don't cut it. I think this one does. As far as marketing goes, again, we are in complete agreement. There is so much hype out there. The word "Hype" is, of course, short for hyperbole, which is defined as an "exaggeration". I'm not sure I'd use that word in association with the statements I've made about this book. You can see that Looch has taken great care over the Black Project, putting a lot of thought into how it will look and feel, and the pictures and video released certainly look amazing. You can tell that he is pretty good at marketing his product - and as his larger stable of products includes himself and his performances, I doubt his ability to successfully market things is something that other professionals are going to hold against him. In fact, as effective marketing is so essential to a working magician's success, I'd expect it to be one of those things they hoped to learn more about from him. But again, I agree with so much of what you said there. You said: "In the "old days", books, videos, lectures, etc. were sources of supplemental income for performers or creators. These days it's a business unto itself with a lot of the product being churned out by guys that have never worked a paying gig in their lives yet justifying the prices as material suitable "just for professionals"... Even though they're not pros themselves! But they are good marketers and have built upon a facade of success at least. Kind of ridiculous, really. (I realize this doesn't apply to Looch, just making a point...)" I couldn't agree with you more. It seems like people pop up here and sell and ebooks, and then they see that it made a little bit of money for them and so they write and sell another one and before you know it, they've released six or seven things in one year - and none of it is good, none of it works because these guys are spending so much time dreaming this stuff up that they don't have any time to perform and test it. It has become a market of its own, and one which I am highly leery of. Anyway, just taking a moment to answer your post Robb. Again, great post and I agree with SO very much of what you said. If these guys who were so busy building their facade of success (and people know who they are) actually took their marketing abilities and used their skills to actually get gigs, then they'd get work and experience, and the stuff they'd produce would be tried and tested and really worked through - they'd be more like Looch and their thoughts might be worth combing through then. Best, Atlas |
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Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4187 Posts |
I disagree about pro's not being willing to pay for info, but I do think they tend to be very selective. I'm not sure how the tax system works on the other side of the pond but here this book would be a valid business expense and so is offset against your tax so that cuts the cost before you start. Yes there is a vast difference between what a mentalist can earn and this has more to do with marketing and selling ability than performing talent. The truth is that show business is 90% business and 10% show! many performers go professional with a great show but little knowledge of business. Getting the gigs, negotiating fees and even marketing yourself, and the ability to sell is what determines your earning potential rather than your performance chops. These are the sections of the Black Project that I'm looking forward to most because these will make more difference than any trick.
There is money to be made out there, trade shows pay very good money but they are hard hard graft and you need to market your ability to generate leads rather than your ability to perform. An average performer can make a 6 figure income if he is good at selling and willing to graft. Likewise the corporate market pays more than private parties although that can depend on who is throwing the party. What it comes down to though is that as a pro every penny you spend is an investment into the product that is you and this is when you start looking at value rather than price. Investing well can be what makes the difference between being a starving artist and one of the superstars. I'm not saying the Black Project will change anyone's life but the table of contents combined with Looch's track record are enough to allow people to be able to make an informed decision as to whether this is a good investment for them. For you maybe not and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me, like you, it's a lot, I get a decent salary in my day job and I'm a single dad, raising kids on my own so my finances are up and down but now my kids are getting older my long term aim is to get back to performing full time and for me every little snippet of good advice is priceless. Looch, Atlas, Ken Dyne and David Penn for that matter are people who's advice I put a very large amount of stock in. As far as the marketing, if you cut out the marketing nobody would know about the book and nobody would buy it, as far as web sites etc, people need somewhere to go to place their order, selling it via pm's on here simply would not be viable. As far as competitions, they can be fun, generate interest and give people who otherwise might not be able to afford the book a chance to own it and in the case of this particular contest they earn it rather than simply having a name drawn out of a hat so assuming I'm not too late to buy my copy I'm certainly not going to begrudge the competition winner their copy, they worked for it. Not knocking your opinion Robb, just offering my own perspective. Mark |
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BMWGuy Inner circle Texas 2563 Posts |
Ordered last night.
Cant wait to get it to dive in. Looch's lectures were amazing, and I have used items from them. Thanks Alex
PRESET by Alex Alejandro & Dan Harlan now available for a special introductory price!
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Ashton New user 85 Posts |
I see this as an investment, an investment in myself, training for a new career.
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Mysteryos New user 28 Posts |
So. Though it has been discussed about the high price, I want to add one argument about this. I really can understand why people tend to be attracted by all these promises and marketing strategies "Hard hitting effects made in X decades of professional working" "Only X books worldwide" "New principles never seen before"
... But isn't it funny or somehow ironic that a bunch of "mindreaders and thought manipulators" fall for all these sweet words and phrases, where as nearly all techniques are to be found in the basic books, which are often old, dog-eared and boring-looking...and cost only 15-60 Dollars (or in my country euros)? Everybody, including me, loves exclusivity- I think that's one reason why many of us had started with this hobby/career, but having more money than another to buy a book with "mysteries inside nobody else knows" should never be the core or the goal of mentalism. Isn't it about the persona or the entertainment of the spectators? And isn't it much satisfying to buy the fundamentals (thank you very much, Bob Cassidy) and develop routines from the ground up and be proud of the flowers that bloom out of this "old soil"? Nearly every time I buy "the best mentalism book of all time" I am disappointed cause all the mechanics lay in the pages of the dusty books on my shelf and are just waiting to be discovered once again. Just the 2 cents from a german hobbyist, who loves this art. |
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GaMBiT_101 Regular user Adelaide 135 Posts |
When does the preorder offer end?
"Being able to do tricks, doesn't mean you're able to be Entertaining!"
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2015, Mysteryos wrote: Let me respond to your "2 cents" with my two cents. You state that isn't it funny that a bunch of mindreaders fall for these sweet words? Well first, since this is in the thread about Looch's new book, you assume by purchasing the book we are falling for something. Perhaps, the purchase is made from more than just those "sweet words". Many of us have had past purchases from Looch where we were pleased with the product and trust was built. We have also seen Looch perform and trust his advice based upon seeing him. Finally, you seem to suggest that as "mindreaders" we should be the last person to "fall" for something. Hmmmmm. no comment. You also say everyone including yourself loves exclusivity but that having more money than someone else should never be the goal of mentalism. Well, I appreciate that you want exclusivity but apparently don't want money to be a factor. Do you want Looch to pick or choose who to sell his book to based upon some other criteria? I really don't understand this preoccupation about what someone else charges for their product? Do you want Looch's book and you are mad you can't buy it? Do you want to try and persuade other people not to buy it (that would seem malicious to me)? Do you think it is a bad deal and if so how can you say that without anyone having seen it yet? We are fortunate in Mentalism that a two volume book containing a plethora of secrets of a working professional can be had for $400 plus. A good set of golf clubs will cost you twice that amount and will be outdated in several years. A coin that is not even very rare (thousand and thousands exists) are bought by collectors for five figures. If you actually use the material in one of these books they pay for themselves in the first performance. And even better, if you don't want it, then don't buy it! The bottom line is that Looch will only make money if people buy it. It looks like there are enough people who do see the value in his work to pay this price. You say that everytime you buy a book it goes back to the fundamentals. Well I know that in mentalism there are really just a handful of methods and revelations. So yes, in some sense you are right. But certain performers add value to the fundamentals. Some people see the added value, others don't. Everyone has their right to their opinion. I simply do not understand this obsession regarding arguing about the price of a book that you are not purchasing and haven't read. My two cents. PS---going to McDonalds now and ask for the manager to reduce the price for the Big Mac---I honestly think it isn't that good and they are making too much money off it. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
$400 = one gig, yes?...
I've asked to be banned
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
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On Jul 18, 2015, Ashton wrote: You can make your investment in many others performers, better and way more experience than Looch! Why do you think this new book will make you better ? Why not Cassidy, Osterlind, Maven,etc. ? If you want to make an investment, take an acting class and a public speaking course! That's an investment in yourself, not a book! |
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Medifro Inner circle Miami 1258 Posts |
The very idea that mentalists are starting to rationalize high priced books is disturbing. Yes value is subjective and yes the material could merit the price, but that's not the issue that really worries me. Its the trend that does.
Magic books ( including mentalism ones ) used to cost 30-70$ depending on printing quality and content. Lorayne's books were particularly pricy at 99$ occasionally. The trend of expensive books has started only recently and was mostly done by performers with a psychic persona. Train Tracking and other material surely deserve a price but what I'm really worried about is the direction of where the market is heading. |
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
Atlas : will you pay 400$ for Black project or will you get it for free from you friend Looch ?
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Medifro Inner circle Miami 1258 Posts |
- Also interested when the promo will be up, just liked GaMBiT_101 asked
EDIT: Is it finished, 18-20th July? Too bad. Thanks |
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Stefmagic Special user 529 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2015, Medifro wrote: I agreed. It hit through the ceiling with Taboo treatise from Jerome Finley at 1000$ and friends of Jerome all praised that it's worth every penny...did you read recent post about how great this book is or did you read someone upgrading his material in any way ? Jerome did it before TT with 100$-400$ book (T&R, Guerilla QA) Jerome has his followers...and he knows they'll buy anything at any price! |
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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2015, Stefmagic wrote: Interestingly, the fact that I edited half the book for him, meant that I had READ half the book and expected that the other half would have been to the same standard, and so I offered to buy my copy. I have no qualms about paying for material that I use - just ask Laurence Hookway. He sent me a copy of his excellent PIN routine and I use it and love it and so paid him for it. Looch insisted that I receive my copy free of charge because of all the time I spent in editing the book, which was a very kind thing to do. But to answer your question, I did indeed approach him cash in hand with zero sense of entitlement or any expectations of anything but a straight forward purchase. Best, Atlas |
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sbays Inner circle Burbank, CA 1065 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2015, Medifro wrote: The market is heading that way because people have figured out that some people will pay these insanely high prices. It is a trend, and it will continue as long as people will pay it. The interesting thing is, in many cases they end up sitting on a large inventory because they can't move them. They get the initial impule buyers, then it dies off. that's when the underground sales begin of selling the books for less than half what the original price was. I have experiened that several times. The argument always comes up about them being able to charge whatever they want. Yes indeed they can. But would it be ok with you if gasoline went up to 30.00 dollars a gallon? If a movie ticket went up to 60 dollars? Would you complain about this, or just say, "They have a right to charge whatever they like"? I would never spend 500 dollars for a book period. It doesn't matter who wrote it or what it contains. It's even more silly of an idea when you are spending that on pure specuation. No book is all of a sudden going to make you a great performer. People keep jumping on the newest, best, eclusive thing because I think they have that idea. Charging 500 dollars for a book is outlandish, and I do not support this trend. If you do, then more power to you.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
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DynaMix Inner circle 1148 Posts |
Earlier in the thread there was a line of thought around "if you're a pro then this shouldn't be a problem".
However true that might be, I found it a turn off. I know in my case once I stopped wavering and committed to NOT purchasing this, I did feel whatever the opposite of "buyers remorse" is. I saved aggressively to purchase this and found myself with a few extra bucks! Picked up a few other items and spent some on the girlfriend Best of luck to all of the other purchasers and I look forward to reading reviews if there are any. |
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