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mndude Special user 879 Posts |
I often see many magicians...even the best to push a magic trick too far that I think can harm the effect rather than enhance it. Some examples:
The OverStuft Oreo cookie refilling seems magical enough as it is, but if it becomes a giant cookie, I think people will be thinking "fake cookie" immediatly. Ignition is a powerful gimmick, but if you start sliding the key around the dollar, you are asking the spectator to believe you are sliding holes, not just erasing a tiny hole in a bill. UltraGum is an amazing effect, but I think if you have a card corner in a pack of gum located on the other side of the room, most laymen will probably assume the pack of gum was prepared in advance and the card was forced, while if you visually rub a dollar or card corner into a box of gum, it seems some how plausible. I usually try to go in the opposite direction-- for example MD color guessing might be from the power of suggestion versus actually reading someone's mind. Anti-G might be something I can do just with a certain brand of beer after rubbing lots of static electricity on it. What are your thoughts on making a trick too impossible vs toning it down? |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It sounds to me like what you have seen is people breaking the rules of magic, with regard to climax and all that, as explained in Our Magic, the book. I personally, as amateur, do not see many magicians perform. The ones I go and see are good ones.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Check out Al Schneider's definitions of Clown, Theater and Virtual Magic.
the degree of "seems possible" can be mediated by what you are attempting to accomplish. (framing) For example, the Long-Short Rope effect can take 2 minutes or twenty depending on the audience and the person you have with the scissors. The entire effect is"overkill" in one sense, but the final C&R may seem anti-climatical in comparison the flow and humor. How many coins to produce in MIsers Dream? What is overkill? The number is relative to framing, while a weird final load would be overkill any time.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
You would also be amazed at how dense and obscure "method" is to the non-magician. I taught magic classes formally for over 20 years and it was essentially all non-magicians taking the classes. You get a good idea from this what folks 'think' in regards to how things are done. In my experience the only folks who think in terms of "force" have in fact some small knowledge of the craft to begin with.....OR...the method itself was handled so badly in total that it may have offered that as solution to the audience. There are ways to make believable that a part of a card could be found all the way across a room, etc.
Brad Burt
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Then, there is the adage that less is more. This can often boil down to pilot error. Consider the different ways by which cards may be manipulated or produced.... or the vast number of sequences possible with Cups & Balls. Just because one CAN do something, is not a good enough reason that one SHOULD do them. At a point, redundancy kills an effect. It is also true that it is best to follow the guidelines that suggest an effect have proper "build". The same basic point in time regarding the effect can be an effective denouement, or fall flat if allowed to become anticlimactic.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
If the presentation can hold it then do it. The audience will tell you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
nautimike New user South Haven, MI 54 Posts |
I appreciate having read this.
I just received Overstuft and I'm working on how to incorporate it into my act. The giant cookie was something that had crossed my mind, but now I definitely get the "too far" concept that can make an affect less believable. For example, I like floating a dollar bill for a short time, and not too far from my hands. Thanks. Mike crossed my mind Quote:
On Jan 3, 2015, mndude wrote: |
mndude Special user 879 Posts |
Overstuft will give you amazing results if you use it right. I was at a Famous Dave, and they were giving away a free pack of Oreo Cookies for patrons. I happened to have my gimmick on my so it blew away the workers at the restaurant.
When I use OS, I make sure I have a pack of cookies to hand out to my spectators to add on to the realism of the effect. When I first tried the gimmick with some seven year friends of my daughter they were amazed by the cream returning to the cookie until it got huge, then started saying "it's a fake cookie!". I really wish it came normal sized so you wouldn't have to be so careful making sure you don't accidentally overgrow it. |
Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
This overkill principle explains why animations with IT are generally better than full-blown floating. It may be something to do with credulity or believability. If David Copperfield had done Portal across town instead of across the world, I think I would have been more astounded.
I can think of another principle for making magic a more realistic experience, namely, increasing the evidence. Most good magic works because the evidence cannot be denied. For example, when the sponge ball or ashes appear in the participant's own hand, the evidence of the impossible is strong.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
The idea that you have a regular size cookie and then transform it into a large cookie is over the top is a theory with no evidence. I have changed small coins into larger coins for 40 years with wonderful reception from spectators. Look, if you come out and say, "Hey, I'm a magician." What exactly do you think that folks are going to expect? What an audience EXPECTS is whatever you can produce in such manner that it APPEARS to have happened. That's it. NOTHING claimed by 'performing' magicians makes any sense anyway. That's what's so funny. The only guys who can claim to kinda come close to what folks think MIGHT be real are the mentalists.
The secret is that you have to make the effect LOOK as IF it has happened. I hate to shock anyone, but we are not 'really' magicians. We are Illusionists in that what we offer IS illusion and not reality. The more REAL it appears the better the illusion, but that's what's so cool. Lay folk are coming to see HOW GOOD the illusion IS. The better it is the better they like it. No one but a boob thinks that what we do it real. If you want to phrase it this way, "They come to be fooled and fooled as strongly as possible." See Pop's posts on the Dilemma.
Brad Burt
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
"The American people luv to be taken, but they wants to have it dun by a expert..." ~ Josh Billings
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