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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Is Aronson's UnDo Influence control ever done with just one card? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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J-L Sparrow
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A few days ago I got to read Simon Aronson's book Try the Impossible for the first time. Since I had heard a lot of good things about his UnDo Influence control, I eagerly read and practiced the first trick, Prior Commitment. Even though I haven't performed it yet, it does seem impressive.

Skimming through some of the other tricks that employ the UnDo Influence control, I thought I noticed that many of them, like Prior Commitment, locate (or work with) two spectators' cards, instead of just one. So I would think (perhaps wrongly) that if I wanted to use tricks that take advantage of Simon's UnDo Influence control, I'd have to necessarily perform for (at least) two spectators.

So my questions are: Do all tricks in Try the Impossible that use the UnDo Influence control require two (or more) selected cards? Or are there some that use just one selected card?

(I've looked ahead in the book trying to find the answers myself by skimming through the other tricks, but there's so much to take in that I'd rather encounter the tricks at my own pace.)

Many thanks!
JanForster
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The by far strongest application is "Twice as Hard" which I perform often and regularly. Of course you could use the principle also with one card only. Think in the direction to make a spectator cut the deck twice forming three piles. Offer him then to choose one of the cut off piles to select a card (bottom card of one of the two piles); from there on you continue as you know where his card will end up or where you will position it. Jan
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Steven Keyl
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You know it's a sound principle when everybody has their own personal favorite things to perform--mine is 'Divide and Conquer', which is also in Try the Impossible.

Personally, I wouldn't use it for a single card because there are already so many more direct methods in the literature to accomplish the same thing. The real strength of this procedure is that it positions two cards into known spots while looking very hands off.
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alicauchy
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Quote:
On Jan 13, 2015, J-L Sparrow wrote:
A few days ago I got to read Simon Aronson's book Try the Impossible for the first time. Since I had heard a lot of good things about his UnDo Influence control, I eagerly read and practiced the first trick, Prior Commitment. Even though I haven't performed it yet, it does seem impressive.


It IS impressive!! After the revelation of the chosen cards, I get applause (or the like); after showing the backs of the jokers . . . total silence, and finally the questions and comments "how was that possible? I really cut on ANY place ... "
So much to do, so little time . . .
sgtgrey
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Prior Commitment and Twice as Hard my two favorite applications from Simon. There's actually an interesting application of the face up undo principle used in a Darwin Ortiz effect called Hard Target in his most recent book. As far as I know, all the routines require the cards to be cut at least twice, so I don't think there is a version I recall with just one selection.
JanForster
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On Jan 13, 2015, sgtgrey wrote:
Prior Commitment and Twice as Hard my two favorite applications from Simon. There's actually an interesting application of the face up undo principle used in a Darwin Ortiz effect called Hard Target in his most recent book. As far as I know, all the routines require the cards to be cut at least twice, so I don't think there is a version I recall with just one selection.

Thanks for the hint, I will look it up Smile Jan
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landmark
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Greg Chapman has a great use for the UnDo Influence principle in his book, quite unlike any of the Aronson effects.
lcwright1964
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I had someone describe to me a version of the 1441 variant of Prior Commitment for one spectator where you have one spectator make two cuts, and have a free choice of one of the two selections. When the reversed indicator cards are revealed in the spread, and the facedown UnDo is done, you count to either 14 or 41 according to whether the spectator selected the first or second card cut to.
Steven Keyl
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On Jan 13, 2015, landmark wrote:
Greg Chapman has a great use for the UnDo Influence principle in his book, quite unlike any of the Aronson effects.


Your blog post sold me on the book which I haven't picked up yet. It's on my wish list.
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JBSmith1978
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On Jan 14, 2015, lcwright1964 wrote:
I had someone describe to me a version of the 1441 variant of Prior Commitment for one spectator where you have one spectator make two cuts, and have a free choice of one of the two selections. When the reversed indicator cards are revealed in the spread, and the facedown UnDo is done, you count to either 14 or 41 according to whether the spectator selected the first or second card cut to.


That's cool. Just have a 1 on one of the cards and a 4 on the other. Smart.

Best version I've seen for the single/ double was tying it in to Marlo's miracle aces.
Presentation wise though I have to say Chris Mayhew nailed it.

Best,
Jed
lcwright1964
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On Jan 16, 2015, JBSmith1978 wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2015, lcwright1964 wrote:
I had someone describe to me a version of the 1441 variant of Prior Commitment for one spectator where you have one spectator make two cuts, and have a free choice of one of the two selections. When the reversed indicator cards are revealed in the spread, and the facedown UnDo is done, you count to either 14 or 41 according to whether the spectator selected the first or second card cut to.


That's cool. Just have a 1 on one of the cards and a 4 on the other. Smart.

Best version I've seen for the single/ double was tying it in to Marlo's miracle aces.
Presentation wise though I have to say Chris Mayhew nailed it.

Best,
Jed


I know Chris personally and should ask him about this. Thanks!
lcwright1964
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I also wanted to put in a plug for learning the Reverse Mode procedure for certain applications. You can set up for placements that result in less counting. For example, a favourite indicator placement of mine puts the selections at 10 and 36 after the Reverse Mode selection and UnDo procedures are carried out. This is or something in the ballpark is what I use for my version of Two by Two from Art Decko. (I don't use the gimmicked number deck, but get the desired numbers to the spectators by alternate means.) I do think that anyone who really loves this principle would do well to read the Theory discussion in TTI with a deck cards in hand. I found that pre-stacking the deck in A-K order for all four suits and seeing what happens for various UnDo combos really enlightening.
sgtgrey
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@Landmark - funny, I just read Devil's Staircase, and the effect you named is very, very similar to Hard Target - in fact Greg mentions they were developed independently. If you happen to know both I'd be curious to hear which version you prefer. Smile
landmark
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Sgt, I don't know the Ortiz effect, so I can't really say. From Greg's description in his book, it sounds like his might be a little more visual, and the revelation a bit more impactful. But I don't know. What do you think? The combination of combining the two principles involved is brilliant, and it's not surprising that such clever cardmen such as Ortiz and Chapman would both come up with this methodology.
sgtgrey
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Landmark - I've PM'd you about it to discuss so we don't hijack the thread. Smile

The short answer is I prefer Ortiz's, but it comes more down to personal preference than anything else - they are both fantastic tricks, and very similar in many aspects.
JanForster
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Both are very good, I have no preferences. But please do not forget that the idea to move cards to sandwich (a) selection(s) is not new at all if you study Elmsley's work about Faro Shufflings. Here you find (just) the addition of Simon's Undo Influence principle. Jan
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landmark
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I wonder what Elmsley would have done with the UnDo principle!
sgtgrey
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I agree Jan - I've read through a lot of those variations. The small change of combining these two great principles, however, I think has brought a good trick into the realm of being a great trick.
Phil J.
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On Jan 13, 2015, J-L Sparrow wrote:
A few days ago I got to read Simon Aronson's book Try the Impossible for the first time. Since I had heard a lot of good things about his UnDo Influence control, I eagerly read and practiced the first trick, Prior Commitment. Even though I haven't performed it yet, it does seem impressive.

It's a brilliant trick. Graham Jolley used it to fool Penn & Teller on P&T, Fool Us.
You were born original... Don't die a copy Smile
Frank Yuen
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On Jan 19, 2015, landmark wrote:
I wonder what Elmsley would have done with the UnDo principle!


Aronson credits Alex Elmsley's "No-Calc" published in 1998 in John Derris' Come a Little Closer as his initial inspiration.
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