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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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I know that, Bill. I'm just screwing around with the rhetorical question bit.
rockwall
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I'm surprised at how much discussion about looters getting a fair trial first but everyone is ready to convict Chris Kyle on something he may or may not have said. Does anyone here know for a fact that Kyle made those claims? Or are they just believing what they've heard from someone else who could just as well be the liar here?
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Scavenging for essentials is not looting.

Can you make the determination about for what they're scavenging from the top of the Superdome?


You can probably make a good educated guess about the guys carrying out the flatscreen TVs.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, landmark wrote:
Tony wrote;

Quote:
I too think Bundy was worse ...


Aw Tony, Tony, you're going to concede the Bundy point? Now I'm going to have to chime in...

Arguably (and who am I not to?) killing under government auspices and policy is worse than one lone nut.
And movies are not made about the heroism of Ted Bundy, thus inspiring other would-be Bundys.



I wasn't even considering the military killing; just the looters and carjackers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, rockwall wrote:
I'm surprised at how much discussion about looters getting a fair trial first but everyone is ready to convict Chris Kyle on something he may or may not have said. Does anyone here know for a fact that Kyle made those claims? Or are they just believing what they've heard from someone else who could just as well be the liar here?


Kyle's claim of shooting looters and car jackers have been well documented as shown by previous links posted in this thread. And it is a matter of record that his story about beating up Jesse Ventura in a bar was found to be false and libelous by a jury who awarded Ventura substantial damages.

Personally, I think Kyle made the statements but that none of them were likely true.
TonyB2009
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On Jan 30, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
There was a guy we used to call "Crazy Gary" who hung out at the Midway Tavern, a popular local bar in the area. A lot of my friends as well as Denise still remember about how he'd joke and brag that he was the killer that the police couldn't find. Everyone figured he was just nuts and would laugh at him.

Until Gary Ridgeway was finally captured, no one realized he was really telling the truth! He WAS the Green River Killer. Many of them still get the chills when they recall that they actually knew the guy and that he wasn't kidding.

That's very creepy. Ed Gein (Psycho inspiration) made similar boasts, which turned out to be true.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Scavenging for essentials is not looting.

Can you make the determination about for what they're scavenging from the top of the Superdome?

You can probably make a good educated guess about the guys carrying out the flatscreen TVs.

How high a probability is sufficient to justify murder? (I'm sorry: killing?)

50%?

70%?

80%?

Personally, I'm not sure.
LobowolfXXX
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I think "murder" is more accurate, and I don't think any figure (including 100%; sorry for the redundancy) is high enough to justify it.

But I still think that it's "worse" to kill innocent people than looters and carjackers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, rockwall wrote:
I'm surprised at how much discussion about looters getting a fair trial first but everyone is ready to convict Chris Kyle on something he may or may not have said. Does anyone here know for a fact that Kyle made those claims? Or are they just believing what they've heard from someone else who could just as well be the liar here?


Kyle's claim of shooting looters and car jackers have been well documented as shown by previous links posted in this thread. And it is a matter of record that his story about beating up Jesse Ventura in a bar was found to be false and libelous by a jury who awarded Ventura substantial damages.

Personally, I think Kyle made the statements but that none of them were likely true.


What has been well documented is what 'other' people claim that Chris Kyle said.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, rockwall wrote:
I'm surprised at how much discussion about looters getting a fair trial first but everyone is ready to convict Chris Kyle on something he may or may not have said. Does anyone here know for a fact that Kyle made those claims? Or are they just believing what they've heard from someone else who could just as well be the liar here?


Kyle's claim of shooting looters and car jackers have been well documented as shown by previous links posted in this thread. And it is a matter of record that his story about beating up Jesse Ventura in a bar was found to be false and libelous by a jury who awarded Ventura substantial damages.

Personally, I think Kyle made the statements but that none of them were likely true.


What has been well documented is what 'other' people claim that Chris Kyle said.

No - what has been documented is what Kyle said to other people. There is a difference.
rockwall
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What is 'documented' about the superdome at least, is a story from a guy about Chris Kyle telling a story during a heavy night of drinking about shooting people from the Superdome. A story told, by the way, AFTER Chris Kyle had been killed. (Tell me again how well heresay holds up in court?) You guys act like you know for a fact that Chris really told this story exactly as it was related a year after the fact. You also act as though the telling of this story is as bad as the actual act would have been itself.

From the New Yorker article.

"Perhaps this story, like the one about the gas station, contains a kernel of truth. Both narratives, however, portray Kyle as if he really were the Punisher, dispensing justice by his own rules. It was possible to see these stories as evidence of vainglory; it was also possible to see them as attempts by a struggling man to maintain an invincible persona. Kilbane, having read Kyle’s book, knew about his drinking habits and his battles with combat stress. Watching Kyle put down pint glass after pint glass of whiskey-on-the-rocks, he said, “It made me think there were still demons bouncing around in there.”"

I'm not saying he didn't tell the story, I'm saying I don't know for sure. And also, even if he did, I'm not going to judge him over it because I don't know what he was going through. Thankfully, I didn't have to serve 4 tours in Iraq.

THIS is something that I DO know about Chris Kyle:

"He received two Silver Star Medals, five Bronze Star Medals, one Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, and two Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals.[7] Iraqi insurgents dubbed him the "Devil of Ramadi" and placed a series of ever increasing bounties on his head, purported to have eventually reached the low six figures."

So, go ahead and judge him over something you know next to nothing about. I'll pass.
mastermindreader
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You conveniently overlook the fact that the story comes from a fellow SEAL as well as other sources.

He had lots of medals, too.

Are you calling him a liar?

And you also have forgotten that a jury assessed damages against him for his proven false story about Jesse Ventura.

Are they liars, too?
LobowolfXXX
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The story about Jesse Ventura came from a fellow SEAL, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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It came directly from Kyle's book.

And it was proven false and defamatory.
LobowolfXXX
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Well, I don't know if it was "proven" false. The jurors thought it was more likely than not to be false, which can be a hair more than 50%. But at any rate, that's kind of my point. We know that either Kyle or Ventura lied, so being a SEAL doesn't necessarily translate to credibility.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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That was my point. The fact that Kyle was a SEAL and earned a lot of medals doesn't mean he didn't tell some whoppers as well.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
You conveniently overlook the fact that the story comes from a fellow SEAL as well as other sources.

He had lots of medals, too.

Are you calling him a liar?

And you also have forgotten that a jury assessed damages against him for his proven false story about Jesse Ventura.

Are they liars, too?


You completely miss my point. (As expected)

I'm not calling ANYONE a liar. (Well, not any of those guys, anyway.)
Dannydoyle
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I wouldn't call any of them a liar if they were in the room. Or I guess within a thousand yards if they had their rifle.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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For the haters, something to boo-hoo about...

February 2nd Proclaimed Chris Kyle Day in Texas.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
landmark
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And I thought they were saving the 2nd for Ted Bundy Day. Crowded calendar.
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