On Feb 2, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Before we get all silly with one another, the proposition before us is that diplomacy is generally preferable to war. Am I correct in reading some of these responses as generally preferring war to diplomacy?

So now that you're done questioning my understanding of 20 century history, you're going to regroup without weighing in on Tony's premise that making nice with militant Islamic terrorists is the quick and easy way to peace, on the grounds that it worked in Ireland? Here I thought that was the proposition before us.

You're not being honest. Tony never suggested "being nice". He did, however, use the Irish example of difficult diplomacy. Let's not trivialize a serious idea.

On Feb 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Before we get all silly with one another, the proposition before us is that diplomacy is generally preferable to war. Am I correct in reading some of these responses as generally preferring war to diplomacy?

So now that you're done questioning my understanding of 20 century history, you're going to regroup without weighing in on Tony's premise that making nice with militant Islamic terrorists is the quick and easy way to peace, on the grounds that it worked in Ireland? Here I thought that was the proposition before us.

You're not being honest. Tony never suggested "being nice". He did, however, use the Irish example of difficult diplomacy. Let's not trivialize a serious idea.

Ok, how do you assess the chances of "sitting down and talking" with ISIL and Al Qaeda as a relatively simple strategy to end extremist Islamic terrorism?

On Feb 1, 2015, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
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Carjacking story falls in his favour, both legally and morally? In what universe? Legally, if true, he executed two people without any legal process. No trial, no conviction. That is legally indefensibly. And as for morally, he is on even shakier ground. Is this the law of the Hollywood old west, where the man with the quickest draw is king? That is a morally warped world view.

Maybe you have a different legal system in Ireland (although I doubt it, since our laws are based on English common law, so perhaps you misunderstand your own system), but here in the USA, you are legally entitled to use deadly force on individuals who threaten you or others with deadly force - which is a necessary component of "carjacking." Why would it be immoral? You are a victim who is preserving your life by stopping a threat. Their rights end where yours begin. There's no legitimate ethical issue.

On Feb 1, 2015, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
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...we [in Ireland] changed our approach. Instead of snipping at each other, and bombing each other, and killing women and children, we sat down and talked. We stopped seeking retribution. And within about three years we had peace, prosperity, old enemies working side by side in friendship. What thirty years of violence and bloodshed couldn't achieve, three years of dialog achieved.

Soldiers and terrorists talking, and trying to understand one another, works. That's fact, not speculation.

OK, but don't pat your national back too hard:

"The simple explanation for the Good Friday Agreement is that George Mitchell, a representative of President Clinton, spent years working with the two sides and developing the principles that formed the basis of the agreement."

On Feb 2, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Let's first deal with acknowledging what Tony actually said.

On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, what would have stopped Hitler faster, a hunger strike or students standing in front of his tanks?

On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:
Seriously folks. How can one take anything an individual that believes this makes sense? No Pants Subway Ride 2015

I really feel that speaks volumes. Yea lets listen to what a person has to say that likes to ride the subway after taking off his pants and standing there reading a newspaper. Yea I want to know this guy's thoughts about the world situation. NOT.

Now who could this person be? Please step forward and identify yourself. But first put on a pair of pants. Jeez...

By the way this individual thinks Chris Kyle had issues because he was an American soldier who killed enemies of The United States of America..

First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

No, the proposition is whether Chris Kyle can be called a hero. And my reply was no, robotic amoral soldiers can never be heroes. There are some soldeirs who I think could be termed heroes. Hugh Thompson for one.

On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:
Seriously folks. How can one take anything an individual that believes this makes sense? No Pants Subway Ride 2015

On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, what would have stopped Hitler faster, a hunger strike or students standing in front of his tanks?

The refusal of Germans to join the military.

On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

No, the proposition is whether Chris Kyle can be called a hero. And my reply was no, robotic amoral soldiers can never be heroes. There are some soldeirs who I think could be termed heroes. Hugh Thompson for one.

You want me to give you a list of Heroes? Read this some time: The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC.

I knew several of them on this list and lived with them and saw them die. So don't you tell me about someone you read about and never even knew. Go back and take off your pants and take a ride on the subway and read the newspaper. That is more your speed.

On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

No, the proposition is whether Chris Kyle can be called a hero. And my reply was no, robotic amoral soldiers can never be heroes. There are some soldeirs who I think could be termed heroes. Hugh Thompson for one.

You want me to give you a list of Heroes? Read this some time: The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC.

I knew several of them on this list and lived with them and saw them die. So don't you tell me about someone you read about and never even knew. Go back and take off your pants and take a ride on the subway and read the newspaper. That is more your speed.

Sorry, but fighting in an immoral war doesn't instantly make them heroes. They may have been good men who thought they were doing good, but that alone doesn't make them heroes.

And were it not for the peace movement in the US there would be many more names than just the 55,000 on that wall.

On Feb 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, what would have stopped Hitler faster, a hunger strike or students standing in front of his tanks?

The refusal of Germans to join the military.

Agreed, but not one of the choices.

On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

No, the proposition is whether Chris Kyle can be called a hero. And my reply was no, robotic amoral soldiers can never be heroes. There are some soldeirs who I think could be termed heroes. Hugh Thompson for one.

You want me to give you a list of Heroes? Read this some time: The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC.

I knew several of them on this list and lived with them and saw them die. So don't you tell me about someone you read about and never even knew. Go back and take off your pants and take a ride on the subway and read the newspaper. That is more your speed.

Sorry, but fighting in an immoral war doesn't instantly make them heroes. They may have been good men who thought they were doing good, but that alone doesn't make them heroes.

And were it not for the peace movement in the US there would be many more names than just the 55,000 on that wall.

If your "sorry" stated above in your post is an apology for your following statement it is not accepted.

Do yourself a favor and don't GO THERE. It is not the way to make friends.

I hope we never meet in person.

On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:

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On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:

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First of all the proposition is if a soldier can be a hero or is it ok to defame him at will?

No, the proposition is whether Chris Kyle can be called a hero. And my reply was no, robotic amoral soldiers can never be heroes. There are some soldeirs who I think could be termed heroes. Hugh Thompson for one.

You want me to give you a list of Heroes? Read this some time: The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC.

I knew several of them on this list and lived with them and saw them die. So don't you tell me about someone you read about and never even knew. Go back and take off your pants and take a ride on the subway and read the newspaper. That is more your speed.

Sorry, but fighting in an immoral war doesn't instantly make them heroes. They may have been good men who thought they were doing good, but that alone doesn't make them heroes.

And were it not for the peace movement in the US there would be many more names than just the 55,000 on that wall.

If your "sorry" stated above in your post is an apology for your following statement it is not accepted.

Do yourself a favor and don't GO THERE. It is not the way to make friends.

I hope we never meet in person.

Well, John, I'm truly sorry you feel that way, and I wouldn't mind having a drink with you some day, but I am not at all sorry for the way I think or feel about the war.