The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..13~14~15~16~17..21~22~23 [Next]
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Do you see the 'Look Inside' message just above the book? If you click on that, it pops up a window that allows you to read multiple pages. (You may have pop ups blocked if it's not coming up.) Or maybe it doesn't work in Canada, I'm not sure.


Oops. I was clicking on the cover icons. Thanks.

Pretty bland stuff. Either Kyle or his ghost have very little gift for prose. Not much to see other than Kyle wrapping himself in the flag, calling the enemy "savages" and turning himself inside out to convince us that killing "savages" is not a moral problem because they are full of evil, but Kyle and his people are not.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Acesover, thanks for clarifyng the pants issue! That had me seriously confused.


Ha, ha. I can only imagine. Thanks for the heads up[.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
MaxfieldsMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Instead of practicing, I made
3009 Posts

Profile of MaxfieldsMagic
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

The terrorist groups had two weapons of choice. Bombs and baseball bats. The bombs were used for the worst atrocities, and killed thousands. The baseball bats were used to intimidate the local population. They had guns too, but less than the security forces, who were very heavily armed. It was a war of terror waged with bombs and baseball bats, so it is hardly an example of the unintended consequences of gun control.



So why were the Good Friday agreements so heavily predicated on the IRA giving up its cache of arms? Were they referring to baseball bats and bombs? No, the "cache" referred to firearms. What about all of the "knee-capping" incidents that were done with bullets?

Just so you know, I would love to live in a world that is entirely gun free. Sure, we'd still be killing each other with knives, swords, longbows, maces, halberds and whatnot, but guns require no skill and therefore put the power of life and death in the hands of anyone who carries them. Problem is, that ship sailed long ago. There are hundreds of millions of guns out there, and they're not biodegradable. Blunderbusses with black powder and turkey shot still are just as lethal as the day they were made. Faced with that reality, what purpose is served by making it illegal for honest citizens to defend themselves?


Quote:
As for your second point, Northern Ireland was not, still is not, an ethnically homogeneous population. There are three distinct ethnic groups up there. They share white skin, but are ethnically different.


No need to comment on that. If that's your position, you have no idea what racial and ethnic diversity and tolerance is. Spend some time in the USA to see the experiment of true diversity play out in reality. We're still struggling with it, yes, but we've come farther than any other country. We don't outlaw minarets, head scarves, or any of the other bugaboos that Europe seems to be struggling with.

Chris Kyle, of Gaelic surname descent, fought for those ideals. When he referred to "savages," he was passing judgement on behaviors and personal choices. Were you there and can you say he was wrong?
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2758 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Chris Kyle's own words:
My shots saved several Americans, whose lives were clearly worth more than that woman's twisted soul.
(That woman - his first victim. What makes American souls intrinsically worth more than non-American souls?)

A lot of people, myself included, called the enemy 'savages'.

I only wish I had killed more.

I loved what I did. I still do. If my family didn't need me I'd be back in a heartbeat. I'm not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun.

Is that enough for you?


I see, so you're going with #3. i.e. "They read something that didn't prove what they claimed it proves but in their fevered and politicized imagination and their own lack of reading comprehension, they think that it does."

We'll start with racist and then move on to xenophobia.

A racist, as you are probably aware, is a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others. No where in the quotes you provide does Mr Kyle say anything about a 'race'. He talks about 'the enemy'. Those he is fighting, not the Iraqi people or any particular race. Anyone with a 5th grade level of reading comprehension would be able to figure that out. Only someone wanting to project their beliefs about what they think he 'meant' would believe otherwise.

Xenophobia. An irrational fear of foreigners or strangers. Nothing in the words you provided shows any type of irrational fear of 'foreigners'. Again, his words specifically were targeted at the enemy, not the Iraqi people. (And there was certainly nothing irrational about having a fear of being killed by this particular enemy!)

He called the enemy 'savages'. Well, I for one would certainly agree with this feeling much the same as I believe that ISIS is made up of savages. An enemy that cuts the heads off of enemy combatants and regularly sets off bombs that they know will blow up many of their own fellow citizens is nothing but savages. I would dare guess that a large percentage of Iraqi's would agree.

But hey, maybe you think they're all just wonderful people who are just a bit misunderstood and that I'm a racist and xenophobe for my opinion. On that, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree.

P.S. Now, that wasn't really so hard to do, was it?

Apparently it really was so hard to do - you just don't get it. You see the words, you even understand their meaning, as separate words. You just don't see what your hero was really like. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to rose-tinted spectacles. But I think the real reason is a closed mind and a limited world view.

Doubtless you will come back with more empty noise. Knock yourself out, but it's getting stale.


I don't particularly LIKE this guy. But I'm with Rockwall in that the quote seemed to be more along the lines of; "they were the enemy and they were dangerous to us so I took them out." Nothing there about hating or feeling superior to these people because of their race.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
My biggest problem with Kyle is the admitted enjoyment he got out of killing people. Killing people is sometimes necessary, particularly in war time, but it isn't something I'd consider fun in ANY circumstances.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
I believe we all know what "Poetic License" is. Having said that maybe he should have said Fulfilling rather than fun.

I doubt that Chris while a gifted maraksman under pressure. I do not believe he was also a gifted writer. If one reads the cover of his book you will notice two additional names. That of Jim DeFelice and Scott McEwen.


While I did not research these two individuals I would imagine they helped Kris write the book. Probably they wrote most of it by putting his thoughts and memories to the page. Just something to consider..
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, acesover wrote:
I believe we all know what "Poetic License" is. Having said that maybe he should have said Fulfilling rather than fun.

I doubt that Chris while a gifted maraksman under pressure. I do not believe he was also a gifted writer. If one reads the cover of his book you will notice two additional names. That of Jim DeFelice and Scott McEwen.

While I did not research these two individuals I would imagine they helped Kris write the book. Probably they wrote most of it by putting his thoughts and memories to the page. Just something to consider..

The first of Kyle's co-authors is a best selling author (at least in the U.S.) with at least 14 books to his credit that made the NYTimes' bestsellers list, and both of Kyle's co-authors have written other books about snipers and other things related to the military. The second works with several military charitable organizations, including the Seal Team Foundation. One of them (Kyle or one of his co-authors) selected the word "fun". And presumably all three signed off on it. So, yeah, something to consider indeed.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
w_s_anderson
View Profile
Inner circle
The United States
1223 Posts

Profile of w_s_anderson
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

It is a shame that the US doesn't try the same in the middle east. It has been shown to work in Ireland. If you had sent troops into Ireland it would not have produced peace. All I am saying is that there are more mature ways of the US handing foreign policy than the shoot 'em up redneckery of Chris Kyle and his ilk.


As one of Chris' ilk, I'd love to meet TonyB in person! Smile There is just something about him and his posts that I find nauseating. Bashing Soldiers for the Foreign Policy they have no control over sure shows his ignorance. Having spent a significant amount of time in the Middle East, I can say with confidence that what worked in his country would not work in that area. It's a nice fantasy though. Landmark, on the other hand, knows how to debate. I don't think he has changed one of my opinions yet, but he has definitely softened a few of them. I would love to spend some time talking to him in person some day. Even though I am usually on the other side of the argument, I have never found him to be a pretentious A.H. like others of his "ilk." Smile
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
I don't know if I'll make it past page 6. Pathetic.

Image
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, w_s_anderson wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

It is a shame that the US doesn't try the same in the middle east. It has been shown to work in Ireland. If you had sent troops into Ireland it would not have produced peace. All I am saying is that there are more mature ways of the US handing foreign policy than the shoot 'em up redneckery of Chris Kyle and his ilk.


As one of Chris' ilk, I'd love to meet TonyB in person! Smile There is just something about him and his posts that I find nauseating. Bashing Soldiers for the Foreign Policy they have no control over sure shows his ignorance. Having spent a significant amount of time in the Middle East, I can say with confidence that what worked in his country would not work in that area. It's a nice fantasy though. Landmark, on the other hand, knows how to debate. I don't think he has changed one of my opinions yet, but he has definitely softened a few of them. I would love to spend some time talking to him in person some day. Even though I am usually on the other side of the argument, I have never found him to be a pretentious A.H. like others of his "ilk." Smile


How can you say it wouldn't work?! Look at all the success Chamberlain had with Hitler.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5024 Posts

Profile of landmark
Thanks, W.S. As I've said to you in private, I've always considered you a gentleman.
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
My biggest problem with Kyle is the admitted enjoyment he got out of killing people. Killing people is sometimes necessary, particularly in war time, but it isn't something I'd consider fun in ANY circumstances.


I agree that the only part I have a problem with is how he describes what he did as fun.

However, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Fortunately, I've never been called on to do what he did. Maybe it's a coping mechanism. Maybe, instead of thinking of the killing of enemy combatants, you're instead thinking of the number of your brothers you're saving. Personally, I don't think he meant, "Gee, this is like video games and it's so much fun!". But who knows, I could be wrong about that.
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
My biggest problem with Kyle is the admitted enjoyment he got out of killing people. Killing people is sometimes necessary, particularly in war time, but it isn't something I'd consider fun in ANY circumstances.


I sort of agree with you about it not being fun. But as I mentioned it can be fulfilling.


Let me ask you a question. As a lawyer have you ever gotten off a guilty client? Have any of your friends that are lawyers gotten off a guilty party? I am sure the answer is Yes, at least to your friends as I am not sure what part of the law you practiced. Having said that. Ask them if it was not fulfilling getting a guilty party off. They may say yes they may say no. But I would wager that not all would say, "no I hated getting a guilty individual off". Be honest. It is a badge that many lawyers I feel carry proudly that they are good at what they do and proud of it. I am sure you will find many who enjoyed it and enjoying something often relates to having fun. All I am saying is that we are using semantics here. To me I feel Chris was a hero. To some here they believe differently. So be it. Let him rest in peace. He does not have to answer to us.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
...

Apparently it really was so hard to do - you just don't get it. You see the words, you even understand their meaning, as separate words. You just don't see what your hero was really like. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to rose-tinted spectacles. But I think the real reason is a closed mind and a limited world view.

Doubtless you will come back with more empty noise. Knock yourself out, but it's getting stale.


Yeah, you can't even defend your position other than some b.s. about, "you just can't understand the words meanings". But thanks for confirming what I had already said. You're just projecting what you want to believe about him into what you read because you're the one that "can understand the words meanings" and that makes it possible for you to "see what he was really like". Yeah, what a load of crap.
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:
I don't know if I'll make it past page 6. Pathetic.
...


It get's worse. The next page he starts talking about growing up in Texas.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
I'd suggest that getting fulfillment by trying to the best of my ability to provide a client with the right to competent counsel guaranteed to him is a bit different that feeling fulfillment by killing people.

Bad analogy.

But if you must know, I actually felt angry on a few occasions when a prosecutor didn't do his job in court, thus enabling me to get not guilty verdicts. (In fact, I once almost got in serious trouble for punching a client I believed was guilty when he tried to hug me after his acquittal.)

I was fulfilled that I did my job well, but it was hardly enjoyable.

I'm sure Danny, as a former police officer, can confirm that most cops are actually very upset even after a justifiable killing. Taking a life is not "fun."
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6763 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 1, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, what would have stopped Hitler faster, a hunger strike or students standing in front of his tanks?

The refusal of Germans to join the military.

This is a joke right? Please tell me you're kidding?
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20618 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
My biggest problem with Kyle is the admitted enjoyment he got out of killing people. Killing people is sometimes necessary, particularly in war time, but it isn't something I'd consider fun in ANY circumstances.

Enjoyment of taking a human life is something I find odd as well. I have known men who got there because they had to. It is not something I would call admirable or would recommend.

This does not make him racist or xenophobic.

It does not make him amoral.

No matter how much people who do not understand want to try to say it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20618 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Most are upset by any killing. Even justified.

Snipers have a tougher job. People have faces in a scope. Often you study them. They are human. Often cops are heat of the moment. Snipers are planned and it is not easy.

I notice a lot of noise from those who assume they know. All the moral superiority in the world does not hide ignorance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
I'd suggest that getting fulfillment by trying to the best of my ability to provide a client with the right to competent counsel guaranteed to him is a bit different that feeling fulfillment by killing people.

Bad analogy.

But if you must know, I actually felt angry on a few occasions when a prosecutor didn't do his job in court, thus enabling me to get not guilty verdicts. (In fact, I once almost got in serious trouble for punching a client I believed was guilty when he tried to hug me after his acquittal.)

I was fulfilled that I did my job well, but it was hardly enjoyable.

I'm sure Danny, as a former police officer, can confirm that most cops are actually very upset even after a justifiable killing. Taking a life is not "fun."



I would have paid to see you punch that guy. Smile

An individual such as Chris is definitely not the runoff the mill individual. Not everyone can pick up a rifle and kill someone even it is justified. It is not in their nature yet survival is. Sometimes in order to survive one must take drastic measures to save themselves and their loved ones. But after the first it gets easier and one begins to rationalize. We are talking about an "individual" named Chris Kyle. After one does it for the first time it gets easier and I believe fulfilling due to the fact that you feel you are doing the right thing and saving innocents, and maybe, just maybe, that is why you are here. I would feel that after as many as he did, he has definitely become immune to killing someone and author or co authors what ever you wish to call them have taken advantage of that. I also believe that he enjoyed the publicity and had his ego stroked by many.

I know many who have come back from Nam and said they would do it all over again because they believed it was the right thing to do. And I am not talking just about serving. But that is a different matter entirely. This may sound off the wall. But a victory or a goal reached is always sort of a rush.

I have no idea whether Chris had personal demons or not. But I feel he served his country and is a hero. If he were my father, or my son, I would be proud of his service to our country and God help anyone who defamed him in my presence for that service.

Maybe he enjoyed his work to much. I am not one to judge him now. It is out of our hands. He is gone. I feel because of him many innocents are still here. While some of the worse have been dispatched.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..13~14~15~16~17..21~22~23 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL