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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Anyone think the government had a say in the book? I have no clue just asking.


Not as far out a comment as some may think. We've learned a whole lot about the making of the film Zero Dark Thirty, which it turns out, despite prior denials, was done with CIA invovelment.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may......cia-memo
TonyB2009
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On Feb 3, 2015, acesover wrote:
TonyB2009 said: They did not put words in his mouth. What he said about finding killing fun was not a marketing ploy, but what he actually felt.

I have to ask. You know this HOW? Seems like you should write your own book about Chris as you know so much about him and his feelings. Did you learn all of this from talking to him or reading the book? Your reasoning make me smile. Believe what you want. We live in a "FREE" country here in the United States because of men like Chris. Again you believe what you want.

I am just curious. What books of yours were on the best seller list? I am sure others here would also like to know. I would be very interested in reading some of your works.

I brought up the point simply because you tried to distance Kyle from his own words, by saying they were a marketing ploy, and inserted in the book the ghosts. I am telling you, as a ghost myself, that they were not. There is no distancing him from his words.

As for my books, google my name and you will find those that were published under my name. The ones I ghosted will not show up, because the ghost is not meant to be known. You will find my name in the acknowledgements, not on the front cover. None of them have been bestsellers in the USA, but they have been in Ireland, the UK, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. That will do me for the moment.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, acesover wrote:
TonyB2009 said: They did not put words in his mouth. What he said about finding killing fun was not a marketing ploy, but what he actually felt.

I have to ask. You know this HOW? Seems like you should write your own book about Chris as you know so much about him and his feelings. Did you learn all of this from talking to him or reading the book? Your reasoning make me smile. Believe what you want. We live in a "FREE" country here in the United States because of men like Chris. Again you believe what you want.

I am just curious. What books of yours were on the best seller list? I am sure others here would also like to know. I would be very interested in reading some of your works.


I have one of Tony's books; you can borrow it after I read it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Anyone think the government had a say in the book? I have no clue just asking.


Not as far out a comment as some may think. We've learned a whole lot about the making of the film Zero Dark Thirty, which it turns out, despite prior denials, was done with CIA invovelment.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may......cia-memo


Kind of my point.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Does anyone actually believe he was on the roof of the Superdome and killed, what was it, 30 looters?


Didn't we cover this already?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Several times, I think, Danny.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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To me, Chris Kyle did a tough task he was ordered to do. A careful read of his book leaves me with the definite opinion he very carefully followed ROE, and when in doubt, did not engage. It is very disheartening to see posts that choose to take parts of the book without admitting to the whole of the book, and then put their personal those parts. My whole life I have been told that to be really, really good at anything, one needs to enjoy doing it. Now this is being used against a man who can no longer defend what he meant.

Like the old west towns that lauded the sheriff who cleaned up the town only to give him a one-way ticket out when he was finished, we let our military take out the trash and then sit on our protected asses pontificating about how evil they were. The day will come soon, I feel, when you will be casting about for someone else with the stones to save you and yours.

Vietnam was bad, but it never made me puke. Some of the comments herein, come much closer. I hate that Chris Kyle was murdered. I am glad, however, that he is not here to read some of the insults...

Thank you, thank you, to every veteran! Whether or not you fought, just your willingness to stand up makes you a hero!
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
To me, Chris Kyle did a tough task he was ordered to do. A careful read of his book leaves me with the definite opinion he very carefully followed ROE, and when in doubt, did not engage. It is very disheartening to see posts that choose to take parts of the book without admitting to the whole of the book, and then put their personal slant on those parts. My whole life I have been told that to be really, really good at anything, one needs to enjoy doing it. Now this is being used against a man who can no longer defend what he meant.

Like the old west towns that lauded the sheriff who cleaned up the town only to give him a one-way ticket out when he was finished, we let our military take out the trash and then sit on our protected asses pontificating about how evil they were. The day will come soon, I feel, when you will be casting about for someone else with the stones to save you and yours.

Vietnam was bad, but it never made me puke. Some of the comments herein, come much closer. I hate that Chris Kyle was murdered. I am glad, however, that he is not here to read some of the insults...

Thank you, thank you, to every veteran! Whether or not you fought, just your willingness to stand up makes you a hero!
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
mastermindreader
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Thank you. And you're welcome.
Dannydoyle
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Not every veteran agrees with Chris. Each has their own viewpoint, and each is as valid as the last as they are the life experiences. Thanks to one and all. Hopefully we are past the name calling.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Maybe a little off topic, but I came across the bit below the other day and it reminded me of a portion of this thread.

Some man (do you know who without searching?) once said:

"We read of killing one hundred thousand men in a day. We read about it and we rejoiced in it - if it was the other fellows who were killed. We were fed on flesh and drank blood. Even down to the prattling babe. I need not tell you how many upright, honorable young boys have come into this court charged with murder, some saved and some sent to their death, boys who fought in this war and learned to place a cheap value on human life. You know it and I know it. These boys were brought up in it. The tales of death were in their homes, their playgrounds, their schools; they were in the newspapers that they read; it was a part of the common frenzy - what was a life? It was nothing. It was the least sacred thing in existence and these boys were trained to this cruelty."

"No one needs to tell me that crime has no cause. It has as definite a cause as any other disease, and I know that out of the hatred and bitterness of the [war] crime increased as America had never seen before ... I know it has followed every war; and I know it has influenced these boys so that life was not the same to them as it would have been if the world had not made red with blood. I protest against the crimes and mistakes of society being visited upon them. All of us have a share in it. I have mine. I cannot tell and I shall never know how many words of mine might have given birth to cruelty in place of love and kindness and charity."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
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Sounds like Clarence Darrow defending Leopold and Loeb?
balducci
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, landmark wrote:

Sounds like Clarence Darrow defending Leopold and Loeb?

You got it. I came across something in the novel 'Trick Baby' last night that led me to CD's summation.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Not every veteran agrees with Chris. Each has their own viewpoint, and each is as valid as the last as they are the life experiences. Thanks to one and all. Hopefully we are past the name calling.


That would be nice but I really doubt that we are.

The defamation of Chris Kyle here and elsewhere reminds me of another sad event in American History. The spitting on soldiers as they returned from the Vietnam war. And in large part by the same crowd.
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Balducci, that Clarence Durrow quote was powerful, and beautifully written. Thanks for sharing it.
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
My whole life I have been told that to be really, really good at anything, one needs to enjoy doing it. Now this is being used against a man who can no longer defend what he meant.

This is the nub of the problem. Kyle was obviously good at killing people. He admits to enjoying it. You say that he needed to have enjoyed killing people to be good at killing people. What does that say about his moral character? He is good at killing people because he enjoys killing people - that could be said of Ted Bundy and many others.

The more I read of Kyle the more it strikes me that the military took a natural killer and gave him a role where he could fulfill his unusual urges without going to the chair. I hate to reach that conclusion about someone, but it seems to be one valid reading of the facts.

I can understand how others see this differently - and to be honest I wouldn't go that far either. But I fail to see how anyone can regard him as a hero. There was nothing heoric in his deeds.

Rockwall, no one is defaming Kyle, because he is dead and you cannot defame the dead. Quaint little point of law there. And to suggest I spat on soldiers returning from Vietnam is ridiculous. I was a child, and in Europe. And I wouldn't spit on soldiers, despite having little respect for what they do. As for the others who find Kyle at least a morally ambiguous character, I find it equally ridiculous to think they spat at soldiers. Try to rein in your bile.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote:
My whole life I have been told that to be really, really good at anything, one needs to enjoy doing it.


I'm pretty sure that whoever has been telling you this is either lying or mistaken.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Devious
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On Feb 2, 2015, w_s_anderson wrote:
As one of Chris' ilk, I'd love to meet TonyB in person! Smile There is just something about him and his posts that I find nauseating. Bashing Soldiers for the Foreign Policy they have no control over sure shows his ignorance. Having spent a significant amount of time in the Middle East, I can say with confidence that what worked in his country would not work in that area. It's a nice fantasy though.

Landmark, on the other hand, knows how to debate. I don't think he has changed one of my opinions yet, but he has definitely softened a few of them. I would love to spend some time talking to him in person some day. Even though I am usually on the other side of the argument, I have never found him to be a pretentious A.H. like others of his "ilk." Smile


I have always found Landmark's comments to be respectful and intelligent.
I don't always agree with his remarks, but for the most part I do.

Like Anderson, I too served as part of several Middle Eastern Ops. I was closer
to the natives thus, my heart was softened to the locals. Savages is an abhorrent
term in this case.

Empathy is much more difficult from behind the scope at long range. I remain
friends with a few Afghanis and Iraqi Chaldeans whom never picked up a weapon.

I don't agree with lots of Kyle's sentiments, but he remains a Brother whom served
with honour. He earned the respect for his achievements on the battlefield.
Civilian life is another matter altogether.
Devious Deceptions
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L'Chaim!
LobowolfXXX
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I always find Devious's comments to be respectful, intelligent, and well-reasoned.

But I like him anyway.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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TonyB says he is a subject matter expert when it comes to Ghost Writing. Well, here is where I think he is F.O.S.

I received a lot of media attention after my last tour of duty. AGT, National News, ect.... I was then contacted by a company out of Virginia who was interested in my story. They specialized in bringing stories from Soldiers to the public eye. I was asked to write a "treatment" on my years of service, with a heavy focus on my tours in Afghanistan and Iraq and the magic I performed while there. I submitted the story and was contacted again about two weeks later and they emailed back another copy of what I had written, only it was spruced up quite a bit. The story was the same, but it was certainly much more dramatic. The gentleman who contacted me said if we got the green light to move forward with a book, he would be assigned as my ghost writer and was there to take my story and make sure it "bounced off the pages." That was at least my experience with those who do what TonyB does.

While I could be wrong, I have no doubt in my mind that is probably what happened with Chris Kyle. But of course since TonyB has never done that, it would be impossible for anyone else to even consider doing such a thing. When it comes to writing TonyB and his "ilk" all have the integrity of a Saint....or at least the atheist's version of what a Saint is. Smile
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Well said W.S.

For some reason it seems that Tony has an axe to grind either with Chris or The United States or both. I cannot understand his reasoning as he has no dog in this fight being from and residing in Ireland.

I cannot figure out why this American Hero (Chris Kyle) bothers him so much. Maybe Tony just likes to have the spotlight on himself and feels this accomplishes that longing. If so I feel sorry for him. However I feel worse for what he is saying about Chris.

It seems that his biggest peeve is the use of the words fun and enjoy. Would Tony be willing to bet his life that Chris really uttered those words? Or better yet bet the lives of his loved ones that Chris said that. Before you answer Tony, remember that fate has no mercy and sometimes when one loses such a wager he ends up paying the bet. It is easy to say, "I am sure" when it costs you nothing but words. But when those words discredit someone else and you lose nothing, those words mean nothing.

Leaving early tomorrow morning for A.C. to play some Poker. Will be gone for a few days. Not sure how many. That is the good news. The bad news is I will be back. Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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