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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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On Feb 3, 2015, balducci wrote:
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On Feb 3, 2015, landmark wrote:

Sounds like Clarence Darrow defending Leopold and Loeb?

You got it. I came across something in the novel 'Trick Baby' last night that led me to CD's summation.

IIRC, the closing remarks for the defense took many, many hours and Darrow did it without notes. Those were the days when people were justly called orators.
AllAboutMagic
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After seeing what ISIS did to that Jordanian pilot today, I think I would rather enjoy looking at a few of those MF's through the crosshairs of a scope. But according to some, those savages are the kind of people you could/should reason with. How much do you want to bet that if offered the chance to go try and negotiate a peace deal with ISIS, Tony would swiftly decline. Or he would demand protection from those he has no respect for. I am sure ISIS would have far less respect for you than you have for the Soldiers who would stand up and protect you in that situation. Your stage name sums you up pretty good Mr. Bologna.
landmark
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Leaving early tomorrow morning for A.C. to play some Poker. Will be gone for a few days. Not sure how many. That is the good news. The bad news is I will be back.

Going there in a $50,000 Caddy and returning in a $500,000 bus? Smile
rockwall
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On Feb 3, 2015, Devious wrote:
...
Like Anderson, I too served as part of several Middle Eastern Ops. I was closer
to the natives thus, my heart was softened to the locals. Savages is an abhorrent
term in this case.
...


First off, let me say that I respect you tremendously Devious.

I hope you haven't bought the propaganda that Chris Kyle called the Iraqi's savages. He didn't. He was calling the enemy that. He may well have made friends with the locals himself, I don't know. But he was obviously just as outraged by innocent Iraqi's being killed by suicide bombers as he was at other horrors he saw.
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On Feb 3, 2015, w_s_anderson wrote:
TonyB says he is a subject matter expert when it comes to Ghost Writing. Well, here is where I think he is F.O.S.

I received a lot of media attention after my last tour of duty. AGT, National News, ect.... I was then contacted by a company out of Virginia who was interested in my story. They specialized in bringing stories from Soldiers to the public eye. I was asked to write a "treatment" on my years of service, with a heavy focus on my tours in Afghanistan and Iraq and the magic I performed while there. I submitted the story and was contacted again about two weeks later and they emailed back another copy of what I had written, only it was spruced up quite a bit. The story was the same, but it was certainly much more dramatic. The gentleman who contacted me said if we got the green light to move forward with a book, he would be assigned as my ghost writer and was there to take my story and make sure it "bounced off the pages." That was at least my experience with those who do what TonyB does.

While I could be wrong, I have no doubt in my mind that is probably what happened with Chris Kyle. But of course since TonyB has never done that, it would be impossible for anyone else to even consider doing such a thing. When it comes to writing TonyB and his "ilk" all have the integrity of a Saint....or at least the atheist's version of what a Saint is. Smile

I assume you never went ahead with the publication? If you had you would have seen how the process pans out. The ghost brings your story alive on the page, because most people tell their own story dully. But the ghost doesn't put words in your mouth.

If Kyle said that he enjoys killing people, that came from him. There is no dancing around that.

A ghost will tone down certain things. He will tone down racism and homophobia, extreme left or right wing views, etc. Misogyny. Anything that would affect book sales and make the 'author' of the book come across as a jerk. But that doesn't mean he tones down the story. If anything he will heighten the action, tone down the attitude. That is the job. As you would have seen had you continued to work with the ghost. Did he make up anything in what he sent back to you? Or did he just amplify your story?

Acesover, Chris Kyle is not an 'American Hero'. He shot people at a distance from hiding. Snipers are unfortunately a necessary part of a war, but they are not heroes. America has plenty of genuine heroes without idolising killing machines like Kyle. I have no axe to grind against America, which I consider to be a great country.

Would I bet my life on Kyle having said he enjoys killing? It is a meaningless question. I know he said those words, because they are in his book, and I am intimately familiar with how these books are prepared. If they were not his words, slipped in by an unscrupulous publisher as some would like to think, then he could have injuncted the book before publication, or sued for defamation afterwards. Of course, he didn't.

Rockwall, Christ Kyle had a full book to express his sympathy for the people of the land he was occupying. It is a bit late for you to add those views on his behalf now.
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On Feb 4, 2015, AllAboutMagic wrote:
After seeing what ISIS did to that Jordanian pilot today, I think I would rather enjoy looking at a few of those MF's through the crosshairs of a scope. But according to some, those savages are the kind of people you could/should reason with. How much do you want to bet that if offered the chance to go try and negotiate a peace deal with ISIS, Tony would swiftly decline. Or he would demand protection from those he has no respect for. I am sure ISIS would have far less respect for you than you have for the Soldiers who would stand up and protect you in that situation. Your stage name sums you up pretty good Mr. Bologna.

I could take this a bit more seriously if you had bothered to check on my actual stage name!
Dannydoyle
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Yea you missed the point totally lol.

Tony you can not speak definitively on his words or not. You sound silly. Having participated on one project in no way makes you an expert on this book.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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On Feb 4, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea you missed the point totally lol.

Tony you can not speak definitively on his words or not. You sound silly. Having participated on one project in no way makes you an expert on this book.

Danny, I cannot speak definitively on this exact issue, but neither can the others who maintain that these were not Kyle's words. All I can speak to is the ghosting process, after participating in six, not one, projects. Knowing how the process works gives me an insight into what is what on a printed page. Most of the others - aside from William Anderson - are outside the process. I have been inside the process.

A statement that he enjoyed killing in the opening chapter could only have come from Kyle, with his approval for its appearance in the book. If the book had been published posthumously then some interference could have crept in. But it wasn't; it came out in his lifetime with his full approval. Those are HIS words. Don't shoot the messenger.
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You are not the messenger. You are a guy who thinks he knows which is useless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Danny, if you know something about the ghost-writing business, please share. Otherwise you are just an uninformed blow-hard.

William Anderson at least based his opinion on direct knowledge, which I can respect.
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You have no direct knowledge of this process. So respecting your opinion of it is then useless and by your own standards makes you nothing more than an uninformed blowhard. Which we knew.

As for ghost writing yea I spent months with one interviewing me for a project about a friend of mine. I have not written it but dealt with them so maybe getting your facts straight should be more of a priority for you. Being a writer and all.

You are so blinded by ideology it is almost comical.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Danny, you are more full of s//t than usual, which is saying something. No direct knowledge of this process - I do it for a living. Unlike you.

There are few more blind than a closed-minded patriot.
Dannydoyle
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Have you not noticed that I have not defended the man? Go back and read. Then take out your ideology and just read.

You did not write THIS PROJECT so you have no clue about the specifics. Just like those of us who also did not write it. I am full of it and you speak in absolutes as if you were there. It is your own bs you are smelling. And as usual it is rampant.

You were already called on xenophobic and the other stuff. Now you know what was and wasn't poetic license. Laughable. Now you think somehow I am defending the man when indeed I did no such thing.

Seems as if facts don't really matter much to you. I hope you write fiction.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Tony has a tendency to universalize his own experiences.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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I have noticed this. Then he makes accusations when others don't share that and can't imagine why one would disagree.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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On Feb 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Tony has a tendency to universalize his own experiences.


Kinda like second amendment rights for the planet, eh?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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Actually, not very much like that at all.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Yea miss quoting never helps but go on John.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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Not misquoting, Danny. But enjoy your drive-by cheap shots.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Devious
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American Sniper Challenge Coin, I've managed to hang on to a few of the coins I've come across.
There is a quasi-underground project to support deployed snipers via raffles, fund raising,
and donations. Challenge Coins represent a certain aspect of that goal.

Image
Devious Deceptions
"Gadol Elohai!"
L'Chaim!
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