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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mr. Mystoffelees
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Having just finished the book American Sniper, I am rather surprised at how much that runs through this thread wasn't in it. I tried to read the book with an open mind, and was left with the opinion that Chris Kyle was doing what he felt (and was told) was his duty to his country and fellow citizens. He was not without misgivings, conscience or belief that he would one day have to answer for his actions.

I won't listen to third-chair-down stories, especially when there is a book that paints a different picture. Neither will I listen to armchair soldiers who imply there is something evil or cowardly about being a military sniper because I know better. I would liken it more to being a pro field goal kicker, just as lonely, just as stressful but much, much more dangerous. It is utterly shameful to me that such things have been written here. Was Truman a coward for his call? Everyone who worked on the Manhattan project? A guy from my home town, Paul Tibbets? President Obama for Bin Laden?

With all the news about innocent civilians being killed as collateral casualties of conflict , why would some choose to defame the very ones who are making clean, surgical strikes documented by witnesses against singular enemy targets?

I say "THANK YOU" to Chris Kyle and all those like him for their tremendous sacrifices 365/24/7!!!

BTW- Chris Kyle also wrote a book entitled "American Gun" which I am finding well-written and very interesting...
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LobowolfXXX
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On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Really? If he actually shot and killed up to thirty alleged looters in New Orleans after Katrina (as he boasted of doing), whatever happened to due process of law? Is that not required if you feel the victims "deserved it?"


If the victims deserved to get killed, then one thing that wasn't going to provide justice was due process of law. That's not to suggest that the rule of law should be scrapped, or not followed; but it's certainly not always most reliable instrument of justice.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On Jan 27, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
His boasts of killing looters after hurricane Katrina, murdering car-jackers, etc, if true brand him as a natural killer every bit as bad as Ted Bundy.


I wonder what percentage of our NVMS community agrees with this sentiment. I don't, personally, but I suspect I'm in the minority.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Kabbalah
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On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

I would feel more pride in my son becoming a gigolo.


Hope instead that your son is never on a battlefield where his life depends on the overwatch on one of these "not one of the good guys".
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TonyB2009
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On Jan 28, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

I would feel more pride in my son becoming a gigolo.


Hope instead that your son is never on a battlefield where his life depends on the overwatch on one of these "not one of the good guys".

Don't worry, he never will be on a battlefield. In Ireland we are civilized enough not to try and impose our culture on the world, or to fight over anything as trivial as foreign policy or oil.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Really? If he actually shot and killed up to thirty alleged looters in New Orleans after Katrina (as he boasted of doing), whatever happened to due process of law? Is that not required if you feel the victims "deserved it?"


If the victims deserved to get killed, then one thing that wasn't going to provide justice was due process of law. That's not to suggest that the rule of law should be scrapped, or not followed; but it's certainly not always most reliable instrument of justice.


I fail to see any trace of "justice" in picking off alleged "looters" from the top of the Super Dome. Or why a looter would deserve the death penalty. Although I do agree that the story was probably a complete fabrication by Kyle. Which, as far as I'm concerns, casts serious doubt on may other stories he's told apart from his documented "kills" as a Navy SEAL.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
His boasts of killing looters after hurricane Katrina, murdering car-jackers, etc, if true brand him as a natural killer every bit as bad as Ted Bundy.


I wonder what percentage of our NVMS community agrees with this sentiment. I don't, personally, but I suspect I'm in the minority.


I think the key words in Tony's posts are "if true."
LobowolfXXX
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If true, I would still hold that Bundy was worse.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Really? If he actually shot and killed up to thirty alleged looters in New Orleans after Katrina (as he boasted of doing), whatever happened to due process of law? Is that not required if you feel the victims "deserved it?"


If the victims deserved to get killed, then one thing that wasn't going to provide justice was due process of law. That's not to suggest that the rule of law should be scrapped, or not followed; but it's certainly not always most reliable instrument of justice.


I fail to see any trace of "justice" in picking off alleged "looters" from the top of the Super Dome. Or why a looter would deserve the death penalty. Although I do agree that the story was probably a complete fabrication by Kyle. Which, as far as I'm concerns, casts serious doubt on may other stories he's told apart from his documented "kills" as a Navy SEAL.



I'm not in favor of the death penalty for looters; I'm just saying that the rule of the is neither necessary nor sufficient for justice. We rely on it for other reasons.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Kabbalah
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On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

Don't worry, he never will be on a battlefield. In Ireland we are civilized enough not to try and impose our culture on the world, or to fight over anything as trivial as foreign policy or oil.


Yeah, thanks for the weather reports during World War II. And, the condolences on Hitler's death.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
he never will be on a battlefield. In Ireland we are civilized enough not to try and impose our culture on the world, or to fight over anything as trivial as foreign policy or oil.



And we don't do it over domestic policy, so I guess it all evens out!

Don't worry...we'll just pretend Irish Army troops in Syria weren't exchanging machine gun fire with the locals a couple of months ago.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
arthur stead
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On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, arthur stead wrote:
Assassins kill for profit. Snipers are military personnel who are ordered to kill by their superiors.


I guess Lee Harvey Oswald was a sniper, then. There is no evidence that he ever got paid to do it. If you recall, many early reports of the Kennedy assassination stated that the President had been shot by a sniper.

What about the serial killer known as the D.C. sniper? He wasn't paid for his actions. Nor was Charles Whitman- the infamous Texas Bell Tower Sniper.


Yep, the minute I posted that, the D.C. sniper came to mind. But I didn't feel like correcting myself. I was fairly certain somebody else would!
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mastermindreader
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Lobo- Your statement about the Irish in Syria is misleading. The Irish Army personnel in Syria are there as part of a UN peacekeeping mission, during which they were fired upon by locals.

The Irish always supported and participated in UN peacekeeping efforts. Otherwise, their armed forces are purely defensive.
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
he never will be on a battlefield. In Ireland we are civilized enough not to try and impose our culture on the world, or to fight over anything as trivial as foreign policy or oil.


Don't worry...we'll just pretend Irish Army troops in Syria weren't exchanging machine gun fire with the locals a couple of months ago.

After being asked by the UN.
As an EU and UN member, Ireland was most probably (can't be arsed to check) asked to provide ancillary support. It's what allies do.(Mostly)
They're not trying to impose their culture or etc, etc. As Tony said.
Then again, I could be wrong. I often am.
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rockwall
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, arthur stead wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, arthur stead wrote:
Assassins kill for profit. Snipers are military personnel who are ordered to kill by their superiors.


I guess Lee Harvey Oswald was a sniper, then. There is no evidence that he ever got paid to do it. If you recall, many early reports of the Kennedy assassination stated that the President had been shot by a sniper.

What about the serial killer known as the D.C. sniper? He wasn't paid for his actions. Nor was Charles Whitman- the infamous Texas Bell Tower Sniper.


Yep, the minute I posted that, the D.C. sniper came to mind. But I didn't feel like correcting myself. I was fairly certain somebody else would!


You didn't need correcting. Lee Harvey Oswald was hardley a military person following orders from his superiors.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Lobo- Your statement about the Irish in Syria is misleading. The Irish Army personnel in Syria are there as part of a UN peacekeeping mission, during which they were fired upon by locals.

The Irish always supported and participated in UN peacekeeping efforts. Otherwise, their armed forces are purely defensive.



Tony 's claim that he "will never be on the battlefield" because of Irish foreign policy, which is what I was responding to, was misleading. The Irish have an army, it engages in life and death engagement with foreign nationals, and as such, could certainly benefit from a good sniper on their side.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Payne
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On Jan 28, 2015, rockwall wrote:

You didn't need correcting. Lee Harvey Oswald was hardley a military person following orders from his superiors.



Or was he? Smile
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LobowolfXXX
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On Jan 28, 2015, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, rockwall wrote:

You didn't need correcting. Lee Harvey Oswald was hardley a military person following orders from his superiors.



Or was he? Smile



Smile
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, arthur stead wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, arthur stead wrote:
Assassins kill for profit. Snipers are military personnel who are ordered to kill by their superiors.


I guess Lee Harvey Oswald was a sniper, then. There is no evidence that he ever got paid to do it. If you recall, many early reports of the Kennedy assassination stated that the President had been shot by a sniper.

What about the serial killer known as the D.C. sniper? He wasn't paid for his actions. Nor was Charles Whitman- the infamous Texas Bell Tower Sniper.


Yep, the minute I posted that, the D.C. sniper came to mind. But I didn't feel like correcting myself. I was fairly certain somebody else would!


You didn't need correcting. Lee Harvey Oswald was hardley a military person following orders from his superiors.


You miss the point, as is expected. A sniper is simply an shooter who fires from a hidden place. The dictionary is your friend:

2snipe
intransitive verb

: to shoot at someone from a hidden place

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sniper

Hence, Oswald was correctly referred to as a sniper.
rockwall
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You miss the point, as is also expected. Someone can be a sniper but not an assassin. Lee Harvey Oswald was also an assassin. The dictionary is your friend:

assassin

a person who kills someone (such as a famous or important person) usually for political reasons or for money

a person who assassinates someone

(The discussion of sniper and assassin started because of your insinuation that there is no difference when you said, "What's the difference between a sniper and an assassin?")
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