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rockwall Special user 762 Posts 
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Well, that answers that lifelong mystery about why so few were killed in WW1 and WW2!
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magicfish Inner circle 6742 Posts
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On Jan 31, 2015, rockwall wrote: Yes. They really took it easy on each other at Gettysburg too. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1064 Posts
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On Jan 31, 2015, rockwall wrote: I don't know about WWII, but it is well documented that the established front lines did shoot to miss, and the favour was returned. Documents from both sides show generals furious over this clever bit of cooperation. There were plenty of other occasions for bloodbath, mainly in open battle, where no cooperative strategy was possible.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3008 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote: Context, Tony, context. Was he killing people or was he saving people by killing killers? You may disagree with the viewpoint or characterization, but at least acknowledge that there is a possible "sane" motivation for what Kyle did, one that might have brought him some peace that he did the right thing. The world is not black and white, my friend.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20523 Posts
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One could argue that a man with the ability to save others who chooses not to would be damaged in some way.
Soldiers are soldiers. Think of the numbers of people killed in WWII. Then divide by the number of those in the infantry and you get to some scary numbers of people killed per soldier even if they aimed over anyones head. Don't try to put a peace time model on war. It does not work. They're asked to do a job that can not be comprehended by most. To throw about terms like sanity and sit back to judge them with some sort of moral superiority is not sane in my view. Heck the only reason you even can sit in such judgment is in one way or another due to the soldiers commitment.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5015 Posts
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It is their commitment that enables wars. If all soldiers refused to fight there would be no war.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1823 Posts
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This is what's happened now in South Africa, where I was born. The army (which during the apartheid years was all white) is now comprised mostly of blacks. And they decided to form a union. So if they don't feel like obeying a certain command (including going to war), they simply go on strike.
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mastermindreader V.I.P. Seattle, WA 12589 Posts
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On Jan 31, 2015, rockwall wrote: Figures you would mock the story my grandfather told me. I suppose you're telling me it's not true and that the Christmas truce never happened. OF COURSE hundreds of thousands were killed in the two wars. Who said there weren't? |
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mastermindreader V.I.P. Seattle, WA 12589 Posts
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On Jan 31, 2015, landmark wrote: Reminds me of the old question, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" And it's still a good question. Phil Ochs had a good answer: |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20523 Posts
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War is an abomination.
One problem. It is still at times necessary. Again the only reason we can sit and pontificate about it in the first place is the soldier.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5015 Posts
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I am not a pacifist. I agree that sometimes war is necessary--though far, far less necessary than the history of the world would indicate.
But that still doesn't mean that soldiers get to hang up their morals, intelligence, humanity, and conscience at the door. What I am objecting to, is this celebration of the amoral robot action figure. Sorry, but an amoral robot can never be a hero.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20523 Posts
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To you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts
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Never be a hero to me as well. Well said Landmark.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts
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On Jan 31, 2015, mastermindreader wrote: That is a wonderful story, and an affirmation of the basic humanity of most of those involved in even the most brutal of conflicts. Delighted you shared it.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20523 Posts
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On Feb 1, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote: Yea that makes two of you. Seems a whole bunch of people seem to disagree. Probably conservatively tens of thousands to one. But you guys keep pretending your views are mainstream in some way.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1064 Posts
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On Feb 1, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: They don't claim that they are mainstream. They claim to be thoughtful and have morally defensible views. And I believe they do.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5015 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 1, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: If they were mainstream locally, I wouldn't have to keep speaking up now, would I? But from what I can see, Christianity has done pretty well.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20523 Posts
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On Feb 1, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: People who think he is a hero also have morally defensible views. Only difference is without guys like Chris there would be no room for the other views. The morally defensible views only have the ability to exist because soldiers and others have the courage to act. Then they have to put up with being called murderer because people think they are taking the moral high ground. I wish there was a way that each could live the consequences of their own personal viewpoint. You guys could live in a world where the soldier does exist and it not affect anyone but you. Too bad this is a fantasy. You guys get the benefit of holding them in contempt and live under the very freedoms thesoldier provides. How lucky for you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3008 Posts
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see where Chris Kyle did anything wrong by any moral standard. Let's back out the story about New Orleans, which most of us don't believe, and the carjacking episode - which if true, still falls in his favor, both legally and morally. Let's just focus on his military service. Did he deliberately kill any non-combatants? If not, he stands on firm moral ground, IMO, and I heartully thank him for his service and everything he did.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2551 Posts
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I am of the opinion that a purely self-serving lie is a dishonorable act. Morality is a more subjective measure. Ethics, there's probably some general consensus on a few universally unethical behaviors...
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jan 31, 2015 08:56 pm 
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