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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Chris Kyle -American Sniper (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TonyB2009
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On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Lobo- Your statement about the Irish in Syria is misleading. The Irish Army personnel in Syria are there as part of a UN peacekeeping mission, during which they were fired upon by locals.

The Irish always supported and participated in UN peacekeeping efforts. Otherwise, their armed forces are purely defensive.



Tony 's claim that he "will never be on the battlefield" because of Irish foreign policy, which is what I was responding to, was misleading. The Irish have an army, it engages in life and death engagement with foreign nationals, and as such, could certainly benefit from a good sniper on their side.

The Irish troops in Syria were part of an international (UN) peace-keeping effort. Not Irish foreign policy. They were not fighting under an Irish flag, but a UN flag, and they were not imposing any culture on any other culture.
TonyB2009
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On Jan 28, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
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On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

Don't worry, he never will be on a battlefield. In Ireland we are civilized enough not to try and impose our culture on the world, or to fight over anything as trivial as foreign policy or oil.


Yeah, thanks for the weather reports during World War II. And, the condolences on Hitler's death.

That was a shameful period in our history. We were newly independent, and there were strong political reasons why we did not join in the war. We were wrong. That said, many Irish men did sign up with the British army to fight the evils of Nazism.
LobowolfXXX
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On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Lobo- Your statement about the Irish in Syria is misleading. The Irish Army personnel in Syria are there as part of a UN peacekeeping mission, during which they were fired upon by locals.

The Irish always supported and participated in UN peacekeeping efforts. Otherwise, their armed forces are purely defensive.



Tony 's claim that he "will never be on the battlefield" because of Irish foreign policy, which is what I was responding to, was misleading. The Irish have an army, it engages in life and death engagement with foreign nationals, and as such, could certainly benefit from a good sniper on their side.

The Irish troops in Syria were part of an international (UN) peace-keeping effort. Not Irish foreign policy. They were not fighting under an Irish flag, but a UN flag, and they were not imposing any culture on any other culture.


1) Choosing to participate in armed conflict as part of a U.N. peacekeeping mission is itself a foreign policy decision.

2) Notwithstanding that, your suggestion that the "civilized" nature of the Irish will keep him off the battlefield is clearly incorrect.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On Jan 28, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
We were wrong.



Geez, Tony, what are ha, new around here? You're taking all the fun out of this! At any rate, kudos to you.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
MaxfieldsMagic
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Kyle was a great sniper. That's all he set out to be. Any value judgments about the goals of his deployment should be directed to his commanding officers and civilian leadership.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
landmark
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No.
mastermindreader
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Who should questions regarding his story of shooting "looters" from the roof of the Super Dome be directed to?
TonyB2009
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On Jan 29, 2015, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
Kyle was a great sniper. That's all he set out to be. Any value judgments about the goals of his deployment should be directed to his commanding officers and civilian leadership.

Ted Bundy set out to be a great serial killer. Are there no value judgements to be made?

Kyle boasted of shooting looters, of killing car-jackers, of punching out politicians (a lie he was caught out on). Either he was a habitual liar or a monster. Value judgements can and will be made.
LobowolfXXX
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My value judgment is that killing innocent people (a la Bundy) is "worse" than killing looters and carjackers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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He may well have been a liar. It doesn't appear that he actually shot looters from the roof of the superdome or killed car-jackers. If he did lie about those things, it could well have been caused by issues he had from his multiple tours. I really don't know. However, there's not a lot of dispute about what he accomplished while at war. What he might have lied about afterwards doesn't diminish what he did as a serviceman and doesn't stop him from being an American hero. (For me, at least.)
TonyB2009
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On Jan 30, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
My value judgment is that killing innocent people (a la Bundy) is "worse" than killing looters and carjackers.

My value judgement is that a life is a life. And looters are quite low on the scale of criminality.
Kabbalah
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On Jan 30, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

My value judgement is that a life is a life. And looters are quite low on the scale of criminality.


Umm, no, they are not.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
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LobowolfXXX
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I'd put 'em toward the middle, off the top of my head. And don't forget the carjackers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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On Jan 30, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

My value judgement is that a life is a life. And looters are quite low on the scale of criminality.


Umm, no, they are not.


Yes they are.

Oops. Sorry, wrong thread. Smile
Magnus Eisengrim
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Not looters, alleged looters. Even less defensible.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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If we take his word that he shot them, we may as well take his word that they were looting.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Absolutely. Whatever happened to little things like the right to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence? At the very least there are major civil rights violations here. (If the event ever happened, which appears to be doubtful since Kyle apparently wasn't above playing fast and loose with the truth, as determined by a jury in the Ventura case.)
LobowolfXXX
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Whether they were looters or not doesn't depend on whether a jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that they were looters following a fair trial.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Tony you have forced your culture on the world and I will forever thank you for Guinness.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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As for shooting looters and carjacking dudes I would not do it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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