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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » And to think a female walking in NY feels threatened (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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rockwall
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I'm sure you remember the video of the female who video taped herself walking around NY for 10 hours and how threatened she felt over all the guys saying threatening things like, "Hey baby!". I'm thinking that if she were to watch this she'd feel pretty lucky.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/01/22/yar......o-video/

Luckily, given how open a society Sweden is and how it's such a small, minuscule percentage of Muslims who aren't peace loving that this must actually be a phony video. I'm sure Snopes will be outing it shortly.
landmark
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Have a female friend walk in the Israeli neighborhood of Meah Shearim in Jerusalem in a sleeveless dress and see what happens.

""Modesty" posters in Hebrew and English are hung at every entrance to Mea Shearim. When visiting the neighborhood, women and girls are urged to wear what is deemed to be modest dress (knee-length skirts or longer, no plunging necklines or midriff tops, no sleeveless blouses or bare shoulders) and tourists are requested not to arrive in large, conspicuous groups. During the Shabbat (from sunset Friday until it is completely dark on Saturday night), visitors are asked to refrain from smoking, photography, driving or use of mobile phones. When entering synagogues, men are asked to cover their heads.[6] Residents have been criticised for attacking police, and other government officials entering the area with stones, and blocking the streets, or setting fire to rubbish when they try to do so.[7] A small, violent, group called "The Sikrikim" of less than 100 families enforce censorship on bookshops, causing over 250,000NIS damage to a shop that resisted their demands.[8]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_Shearim
rockwall
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I expect to see you on the apology tour along with Fox News by next week for saying such outlandish things!
landmark
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I'll tell you a funny story, rockwall.

My father was one of the founders of a little congregation that met Saturday mornings in the basement of a card club (no, not tommy's). The card club was called The One Hundred Club. Because of the name of the card club, the congregation called their synagogue Meah Shearim--the Hebrew for One Hundred Gates. Eventually that Orthodox Jewish congregation grew quite large and they were ready to build their own synagogue. The synagogue was also going to be called Meah Shearim. The rabbi, however, who had visited Israel many times, pointed out that Meah Shearim was the name of a neighborhood in Jerusalem whose residents were fanatic and sometimes violent; and despite the innocent derivation of the congregation's name, it would be better, he advised, if the congregation changed its name.

And so they did. This was about fifty years ago. So this was well known even half a century ago. And nothing has been done in Jerusalem to change it.

Selective outrage? No, just another example of how fundamentalist religion is dangerous.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Interesting and sad story. The vitriol in the comment section is even more chilling than the documentary reporting.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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More chilling? Hardly.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On Jan 26, 2015, rockwall wrote:
More chilling? Hardly.


They're both highly artificial. It's difficult to say what, exactly, these highly selected and edited pieces tell us about the world. They're great for generating advertising revenue, but they are a little suspicious as journalism.

That said, I don't doubt the anti-Semitism in Malmö is real. It's very difficult to grasp scale and depth based on these kinds of clips. (And the sexism clip in the original reference as well.)

OTOH, online comments are also a contrived little world of their own too. The big difference I see is that the reactions in the video are instantaneous gut-level instances of prejudice. Written comments are planned, conscious instances; the posters do have time to reconsider, but don't.

But fair enough, rockwall. I do see why you would find the video more chilling.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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Message boards are full of vitriol and nasty thoughts. Even here on the Café, where we all share a common love, msgs can be mean and demeaning.

However, few comments on a msg board will make you consider leaving your home. As reported, jews in the area around the video are afraid to send their kids out of the house and are leaving the area in large numbers. Apparently, not just there in open minded Sweden but in many parts of France as well. Yes, getting threatened in person is generally quite a bit more chilling than reading a nasty comment on a msg board.
tommy
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Auschwitz 70th anniversary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30996555

Auschwitz survivors urge the world not to allow a repeat of the crimes of the Holocaust as they mark 70 years since the death camp's liberation.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
rockwall
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Http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/676/485.html

Another experiment.

Jewish journalist walks through Paris wearing a tzitzit and a kippa.

"They made it clear to us that we had better get out of there, and we took their advice. "A few more minutes and this would have been a lynching," the bodyguard told me as we were getting into the car. "Leave this area right now."

Is this what life is like for Paris' Jews? Is this what a Jew goes through, day in and day out, while walking to work or using public transportation? The majority of French Jews do not flaunt their religion, as the Jewish community leaders have urged them to wear hats as they walk to and from work, or go bareheaded. But what about nighttime? Well, Jews prefers to stay inside in the evening. It is safer at home."
balducci
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Ten hours of video, and those were evidently the most traumatic scenes of abuse he could get out of it? (BTW, I noticed he was walking down the middle of a street in a part of it. In some corners of the world, that will get you shot and killed.)

FWIW, here is a more comprehensive reporting of his experiment:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31491723

"It's impossible for us to verify Klein's video, and like other '10 hours in...' videos there has been a large amount of editing - which critics say conveys a false impression ... Although a bodyguard was trailing Klein and his secret cameraman, the abuse didn't escalate beyond the verbal. 'I did think that there might be some violence, but there was none,' he says. In fact some locals spoke out in his defence when heckled, and there was a friendly conversation as well, but these were not filmed and included in the video ... Marc Konczaty, president of MJLF, a Jewish community organisation in Paris, says he is not surprised by the video ... but he agrees with Klein's observation that it is usually confined to certain neighbourhoods in the north and east of Paris. He is keen to point out that Muslims and other minorities in the city can face similar problems."

Bonus link:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Rev......nce.html
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Jan 23, 2015, landmark wrote:
Have a female friend walk in the Israeli neighborhood of Meah Shearim in Jerusalem in a sleeveless dress and see what happens.

""Modesty" posters in Hebrew and English are hung at every entrance to Mea Shearim. When visiting the neighborhood, women and girls are urged to wear what is deemed to be modest dress (knee-length skirts or longer, no plunging necklines or midriff tops, no sleeveless blouses or bare shoulders) and tourists are requested not to arrive in large, conspicuous groups. During the Shabbat (from sunset Friday until it is completely dark on Saturday night), visitors are asked to refrain from smoking, photography, driving or use of mobile phones. When entering synagogues, men are asked to cover their heads.[6] Residents have been criticised for attacking police, and other government officials entering the area with stones, and blocking the streets, or setting fire to rubbish when they try to do so.[7] A small, violent, group called "The Sikrikim" of less than 100 families enforce censorship on bookshops, causing over 250,000NIS damage to a shop that resisted their demands.[8]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_Shearim

Have a woman show her face in kabul and see what happens.
(Nice try though)
balducci
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Apparently the reporter has more to fear in good ol' Wisconsin:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/02/......c-slurs/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 23, 2015, landmark wrote:
Have a female friend walk in the Israeli neighborhood of Meah Shearim in Jerusalem in a sleeveless dress and see what happens.

""Modesty" posters in Hebrew and English are hung at every entrance to Mea Shearim. When visiting the neighborhood, women and girls are urged to wear what is deemed to be modest dress (knee-length skirts or longer, no plunging necklines or midriff tops, no sleeveless blouses or bare shoulders) and tourists are requested not to arrive in large, conspicuous groups. During the Shabbat (from sunset Friday until it is completely dark on Saturday night), visitors are asked to refrain from smoking, photography, driving or use of mobile phones. When entering synagogues, men are asked to cover their heads.[6] Residents have been criticised for attacking police, and other government officials entering the area with stones, and blocking the streets, or setting fire to rubbish when they try to do so.[7] A small, violent, group called "The Sikrikim" of less than 100 families enforce censorship on bookshops, causing over 250,000NIS damage to a shop that resisted their demands.[8]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_Shearim

Have a woman show her face in kabul and see what happens.
(Nice try though)

So we are agreed that such a situation is not confined to any one country, race, or religion.
magicfish
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No. We are not.
landmark
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rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, balducci wrote:
Ten hours of video, and those were evidently the most traumatic scenes of abuse he could get out of it? (BTW, I noticed he was walking down the middle of a street in a part of it. In some corners of the world, that will get you shot and killed.)

FWIW, here is a more comprehensive reporting of his experiment:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31491723

"It's impossible for us to verify Klein's video, and like other '10 hours in...' videos there has been a large amount of editing - which critics say conveys a false impression ... Although a bodyguard was trailing Klein and his secret cameraman, the abuse didn't escalate beyond the verbal. 'I did think that there might be some violence, but there was none,' he says. In fact some locals spoke out in his defence when heckled, and there was a friendly conversation as well, but these were not filmed and included in the video ... Marc Konczaty, president of MJLF, a Jewish community organisation in Paris, says he is not surprised by the video ... but he agrees with Klein's observation that it is usually confined to certain neighbourhoods in the north and east of Paris. He is keen to point out that Muslims and other minorities in the city can face similar problems."

Bonus link:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attraction_Rev......nce.html


My bet is that if we had a black man film a video of him walking through the streets of New York and he got similar taunts, threats, etc., that you and others here would not be quite so indifferent to it.
rockwall
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Having a place or a home vandalized is quite different than these type of experiences. Vandalizing is usually caused by a few corrupt individuals. They go out and find the places they want to vandalize. When you can go for a walk and encounter these people all over the place, then you have a much more serious problem.

Just another one of your false equivalencies.
landmark
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I apologize, clearly the vandalizing of physical property, a school, an imprison-able crime, is far less worrisome than someone's negative comments. What was I thinking?

It would be fascinating to see what the reactions would be if someone identifiable as Muslim went walking through Salt Lake City or New York City followed by a camera.
balducci
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:


Having a place or a home vandalized is quite different than these type of experiences. Vandalizing is usually caused by a few corrupt individuals. They go out and find the places they want to vandalize. When you can go for a walk and encounter these people all over the place, then you have a much more serious problem.

Just another one of your false equivalencies.

But that's just it, the reporter didn't encounter these people "all over the place". He said he experienced it in a small area of the city (and, judging from the video, incidents there were few and he was never physically assaulted or harmed).

Marc Konczaty, president of MJLF, a Jewish community organisation in Paris, said that Muslims and other minorities in Paris face similar problems as the Jews.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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