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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, Bob1Dog wrote: Little doubt they would have suffered the same fate. however it very likely would have been much slower in coming. If the British had won the revolution the Louisiana Purchase most likely would not have occurred Unlikely the French would have sold anything to their longtime rivalenemy the British. This would have slowed the western expansion of the continent. Manifest Destiny and the Monroe doctrine would never have come into being. So the north American continent would look wholly different than it does today. Without the mad dash to push the new country westward as fast as possible the native Americans might have had a bit longer time consolidate their power and put up a better fight against the interlopers. But in the end they still would have lost.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Thank you Payne for recognizing that.
I'm not going to debate this ad nauseam like some threads in here. The Indians suffered under the US government and they would have suffered the same, if not worse under British domination. My opinion and y'all can parse it any way you wish. Bye now.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Well that's a complete about-face from what you wrote earlier in this thread:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2015, Bob1Dog wrote: The evidence put forth in this thread clearly indicates that the Indians probably would have fared marginally better under British rule, at least for a time. Either way, I can see no support for the notion that the Revolutionary war benefited Native Americans at all. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Of course you can't Bob.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Our aboriginal peoples, have been treated better by the British Crown than by our own Canadian government.
Our First Nations peoples live by centuries old treaties with the Crown. Joseph Brant is one of our national heroes as is Tecumseh. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Canad......_peoples |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, magicfish wrote: All true, but the bulk of social tragedy in Canada still falls on First Nations, Métis and Inuit communities. We have great distances to walk before we can rest.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
I suspect that if you really wanted to know how the Native Americans feel about Independence day or Columbus day, you'd have to ask them. And then, I suspect you'd get as wide a range of opinions as you would get asking Americans about almost any other subject.
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
OK, my sincere apologies if I offended our Canadian and British allies with my statement above, that was NOT my intent. I perhaps shot from the hip with my statement that the Native Americans would have been treated worse by the British if they'd won the American Revolution. But the world is different today than it was then, and I'm thankful for our British and Canadian allies today, I sincerely mean that. My only point is that we don't really know how the Native Americans would have fared under British rule in the expansionism that would have taken place under the Crown. That's all. Sorry I painted the picture I did. But we truly don't know how it would have gone.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
We don't but I doubt anyone here thinks that however things turned out, things wouldn't have changed drastically for them one way or another. It's not like there was any scenario where everyone decided to head back to Europe, (or whereever), and forget about the new world.
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, Bob1Dog wrote: Good point, Bob, I agree. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
As I noted above, Canada is an excellent case study of how they fared under the British. And the picture is not pretty.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, magicfish wrote: Thanks my brother.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Australia never had slavery on the scale of the United States, or with the legal sanction of the government.
Aboriginals however were often press ganged into work, and paid little or nothing - just fed or given addictive substances which kept them reliant on their 'employer' - grog, opium, tobacco. Later when their lives were controlled by government appointed 'Protectors of Aborigines' their wages (substantially less than white whites received for the same work) were paid to the protectors and the Aboriginals had to apply to spend any of it, justifying to the protector why they needed to spend that money. This continued until just a few decades ago here in the state of Queensland where I live and especially here in the north of the state the Aboriginals were usually confined to church run missions, and needed to apply and obtain written permission to leave the mission for any reason including work. If work caused them to live away from the mission they then needed to apply and obtain written permission to return, say for example, for their Mum's funeral. (Into the 1980's the government actually kept the money held back by the protector from the Aboriginals from their wages and it was only the election of a new government after years of control by a supposedly religious, gerrymandering, corrupt and quite dictatorial government that the money was returned to those still alive.) Also here in Nth Queensland we had what was known as 'blackbirding' where ships of armed men would sail to Pacific Islands and return with shiploads of young black men to work as indentured workers on sugar plantations for which they were paid six pound a year - 2 pound of which was retained for their transport to and from the islands and their food. Some of the islanders came voluntarily, but the ships captains never returned without a full ship, whatever it took to achieve that. The 'kanakas', as they were known, worked hard for a pittance, many died, and they had to obey laws that did not apply to whites. Most of those who stayed beyond their term of indenture and made lives here were thrown out of the country when the White Australia policy was implemented early last century. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Here's an ugly incident.
Quote: The Midwest has a stereotype of always being nice. Sadly, however, fans at a minor league hockey game in Rapid City, South Dakota, are doing their best to defile that by reportedly acting like complete racist jerks — to children nonetheless. Rapid City’s KOTA-TV reports several men sitting in a VIP suite at a Rapid City Rush game poured beer on and hurled racist insults to a group of 57 Native American children sitting below them.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Slavery, it has many forms and the form which they have today is so efficient, that you don’t even know that you are a slave.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 1, 2015, tommy wrote: And nearly all of us support slavery one way or another by buying cheap items.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, Ian McColl wrote: Not "quite" the same Ian. But in many respects I agree with you. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2015, kambiz wrote: I know you are smart enough to know what I mean.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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