We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Transparent Chop Cup (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Magic Man 997
View Profile
New user
33 Posts

Profile of Magic Man 997
Have you ever performed a transparent chop cup? I know there are a couple of sources out there for methods. I'm working on putting together a routine, I have a few basic moves down, but I was wondering what advice others may have. Do you have any advice you could offer (routine length, climax etc...)?

Thanks for any responses, Tyler L.
55Hudson
View Profile
Special user
Minneapolis
980 Posts

Profile of 55Hudson
Why?

What effect are you going for? That should drive the method and props. Just to do something different is not a good reason for selecting props or method.

Think about the cups and balls. From descriptions (pictorial and written) that date back to the 1500's, I present cups and balls basically the same as then - and still get a great reaction. A classic because it entertains the same today as 500 years ago.

Not saying that methods can't be improved, they certainly can. But think about the why before the how.

Hudson
Magic Man 997
View Profile
New user
33 Posts

Profile of Magic Man 997
Hey Hudson,

A classic is a classic yes. Lots of books recommend taking an effect and adding your own patter and making it your own.

So why a transparent chop cup. It fits my character, I'd bring up a brief history of the effect, a trick that can be performed using very expensive fancy cups. But of course my character being a college student, can't afford a $100+ copper cup for 1 trick. But, although he can't afford a fancy cup, he can do it in a way that no one else does (not 100% true) with an affordable transparent (I believe technically translucent or tinted would be a better term) cup.

The method being used has been around a while, it just uses a different type of cup as it better fits my character.

~Tyler
55Hudson
View Profile
Special user
Minneapolis
980 Posts

Profile of 55Hudson
Tyler - as long as you have a reason. Be a bit careful about focusing the rationale on the cup - you may tip more than you woukd like. When I use a mini chop cup, I ask if they've "heard of the three shell game? Well, I can only afford one shell." Explains why one cup and also the levity take the heat off the cup.

You may want to consider a PK ring. Your hand, with some practice on angles, would provide the cover you need with a transparent cup.


Hudson
pepka
View Profile
Inner circle
Uh, I'm the one on the right.
5041 Posts

Profile of pepka
A few years ago, I would have been intrigued by this. After seeing Jason Latimer's clear cups and balls routine in person, I don't think so. It doesn't look NEARLY as good in person as it did on camera.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8478 Posts

Profile of funsway
FoldCup allows you fold up a piece of paper and perform standard Chop effects without a gaffed ball -- just a crumbled piece of paper or dollar bill,
plus other effects not possible with a Chop Cup.

So, if you want the "cheap" story why purchase a plastic or paper cup?

The "history of the effect" is that it allowed performers to emulate what can be done with practiced Sleights without a lot of practice.

Check out "Chop Sign" for alternative uses of any Chop Cup that may fit your style, or methods like Scout Around for using a standard cup to achieve Chop results.

I "See" no advantage for a lay person in using a transparent cup. And, as noted above, it may draw attention to the Cup that should never be an issue at all.

Consider that any Cup is just a substitute hand. If you wish to be "transparent" just eliminate the cup all together and do Transportation effects in and out of spectator hands.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Mr. Woolery
View Profile
Inner circle
Fairbanks, AK
1673 Posts

Profile of Mr. Woolery
Last night I rewatched Tommy Wonder's Hillside lecture video. Wonderful thinking. I especially was taken with some thoughts I had not retained from earlier watchings. He noted that there are many tricks he wants to do and has them totally worked out except for one minor detail. The method. He then encouraged his audience to be artistic and look for the beautiful instead of imitating other magicians.

How is that relevant? Well, I have no desire to perform with a clear chop cup, but I do find the idea fascinating. The audience management to get people looking somewhere other than the cup until you want them to is very magical. There's a trick called Rope, Nut, Knot that I don't do (it does not suit me), but I love the part where the nut appears under the deck of cards and I think such moments would be fantastic with a transparent cup.

Tyler asked for advice. Here's mine. Do it. I can imagine such an effect being singularly wonderful or totally execrable. If you can achieve the wonderful, you may start a new magic meme. But I hope not. I hope it becomes a thing that is truly yours and only yours. And you will make a video and I will smile when I watch it, knowing that I won't do the same trick but admiring you for making it yours. Do it.

I suggest you don't worry about method quite yet. Instead, script out the effects. What do you want to be able to do? Like every single step of the process and what the audience should see and where they should look. When do you want them to see the ball? When you have that, go back and figure out how to make each element happen.

I would probably keep it under 2 minutes, but that's because if it is done right, the audience may not know how the ball gets under the glass, but they will soon be trained to look for it there. Final load would be just about anything you like.

I suggest looking at Tommy Wonder's cups and balls routine for an example of wonderful loads. Watching the lecture video is great because when he explains the routine, it somehow becomes even more beautiful. The L&L video has something like 30 minutes of discussion on this 3 minute routine. The moves are not as amazing when explained in depth as they are in the lecture video, but they are much more learnable. The World's Greatest Magic DVD it is on is worth the price for his thinking on this routine alone.

Also look at Penn and Teller's routine with clear plastic cups. See how they direct the audience attention.

-Patrick
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18560 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Casual thought - use a clear glass and a handkerchief.. Much like a routine with a glass and walnut in my new book "My Best Stuff."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
21856 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
You don't need expensive cups, that is a personal choice. There is other cups that will draw attention. I through out my Cups for a set of cans. I went to the kitchen opened a can of whole potatoes, carrots, and beets. The new round bottoms really stack nicely. Some rolled up dollar bills and the routine is set to go.

Any item can be used, Pat Page used ordinary coffee and tea cups and mugs. Fine china is much more classy then cold hard metal cups. Also, fine china and some of the popular dinner ware can attract the attention of the ladies. Several women made a comment that they have a collection of a cup I was using.

Make it fun and draw some interest to your magic. I can't believe with all the comments on the Café that every prop should be ordinary, people still think they need some special spun expensive metal cups. I bet the reason that them cups were metal, is because back in ancient times many of the cups were metal, that is when they discovered brass, copper, and steel. So they were using ordinary props in their day. It is no longer medieval times. It is the 21 century.

Get off the I can't afford this and that, this is not excuse to not learn a Cups and Balls routine, if you really want to.

As far as Chop Cup routines, I have been having fun for years with Paul Harris' Beenee Weenee Can routine. It is very entertaining and fun to perform.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Magic Man 997
View Profile
New user
33 Posts

Profile of Magic Man 997
Hey Bill, maybe I didn't communicate clearly I wasn't using not being able to afford expensive props as an excuse to not perform the cups and balls but in performance, some people use these fancy cups but I use a more affordable cup.
Thanks for the chop cup routine recommendation I'll have to check it out.

Thanks Pete, I'd been considering using a napkin or something as cover during part of the routine.

~Tyler L.
Dave V
View Profile
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4825 Posts

Profile of Dave V
Nicholas Night's "Enigma" has been around for years and is basically an "impromptu" Chop Cup routine with a clear glass. (It can be borrowed). You can do it his way with a dollar bill, or substitute the ball of your choice but you risk losing the impromptu feel of the routine.

http://youtu.be/iesVxKaYtw0
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Chris Meece
View Profile
Special user
Somerset Kentucky
788 Posts

Profile of Chris Meece
The gimmick from Chop by Craig Petty could work well with this routine. Your hand should cover the "dirty work." I think it sounds like a fantastic idea. It could have some real sweet moments where you draw attention up as the ball settles down to the bottom (top?) of the cup only to be noticed later.

The Enigma video Dave V posted looks very helpful as well. I hadn't seen this effect before .. looks great!
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Clemens Ilgner
View Profile
New user
Germany
13 Posts

Profile of Clemens Ilgner
Hi,
in my competition act I start with the production of a drink and use a glas and some ice cubes for different effects.
Than I usually did a classic chop cup sequence by covering the glas with a piece of paper. Some day I lost my gimmick
during the performance and I had to improvise. When I practiced at home in front of a mirror without the paper cover I found out
that the routine works also with no cover 😜

Have a look: https://vimeo.com/172887802
Harry Murphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
5271 Posts

Profile of Harry Murphy
Man Dave V. I bought the Enigma gimmick and printed routine from Hank Lee at a SAM convention back in the late 70s. I used it for over a decade (actually bought two more from Al Cohen just to make sure I had back ups). It has been almost 20 years since even thinking bout that neat little gimmick. The routine was great for a bar environment. I've gotta start digging I'm my old boxes and find that puppy again. It is time to revisit it. Thanks for the memory!!


Clemens LLgner that is a sweet routine. I enjoyed watching it. Thanks for sharing.

There are some good ideas bouncing around this thread. Nice to think out of the box/cup from time to time.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
Clemens Ilgner
View Profile
New user
Germany
13 Posts

Profile of Clemens Ilgner
Thank you Harry!
I had a lot of fun with this sequence. I'm lecturing and performing at Abbott's. So I'm looking forward to see some of you there!

All the best Clemens
Mad Jake Jr.
View Profile
New user
Willis Warf, Va.
25 Posts

Profile of Mad Jake Jr.
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, 55Hudson wrote:
Why?

What effect are you going for? That should drive the method and props. Just to do something different is not a good reason for selecting props or method.

Think about the cups and balls. From descriptions (pictorial and written) that date back to the 1500's, I present cups and balls basically the same as then - and still get a great reaction. A classic because it entertains the same today as 500 years ago.

Not saying that methods can't be improved, they certainly can. But think about the why before the how.

Hudson


Different is a good reason to create something new. Howard Shcarzmen <sp?" Brought us numorors effects that are "Different". I can think of one right now, Mr. Rommley brought us an effect that was different, a bott through
A solid deck of cards in a box. There are plenty of Solid through solid effects, I bought several of them from Harry in Daytona. Every time I walk in each year Harry always has something Different to show me and of course I usually
Buy it.

Jake Jr.
Asaka
View Profile
Regular user
122 Posts

Profile of Asaka
Isn't Penn and Teller performed a cups and balls routine using transparent cups in their show? Not exactly Chop Cup but worth looking into...
friend2cptsolo
View Profile
Elite user
Spent all this time on the Cafe' and all I have to show for it is
445 Posts

Profile of friend2cptsolo
A Transparent cup covered by a napkin is no longer a transparent cup..... there are many cheap cups that are not transparent and not copper or metal and can be gimmicked to work for a chop cup senerio. And also a generic SOLO brand red cup might suit your needs, Every college has stacks of those around.
And someone mentioned the Latimer clear cups routine, which I think about as very controlled crowd. Everyone must be in front of you and angles may play a roll, like if they are too close or standing. Latimer is really not doing a cups and balls routine as much as a stage like production act.
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11157 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Not for everyone, but this is how I might attack the problem. The assumption is that a clear cup would/should be impossible because of its transparency. The goal is to have the object (or objects) show up in an impossible location, that is considered to be in plain sight the whole time.

OK, what other effects might be similar in criteria? Card Under the Drink immediately comes to my mind. The method mostly relies on misdirection. The problem with a clear cup and the fundamental difference between it and Card Under the Drink is that the cup is the sole focus point, whereas the drink is a peripheral object. The Tommy Wonder Cups & Balls reference made above is a perfect example of this thinking, although in a somewhat different usage. In his routine, items that are sitting in plain view of anyone in the room are found under the cups... more than once!

So, what if the clear cup is used to set the premise of the trick before a solid cup is ever introduced? A sample introduction: "I know of a little game called Hide the Ball. I will either put the ball in my pocket or hide it under this glass." (the obvious becomes apparent).

So, then you suggest using an opaque cup. The clear glass is placed aside, out of the focal point, but definitely within the field of view. Now, construct your routine where the clear glass is used as a surprise element... more than once, if you wish!
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1744 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Check this out. Paul Romhany and his Clear Cups and Balls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwaEb3RV7dI

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Transparent Chop Cup (9 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL