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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » An Experiment... (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Christopher Lyle
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Dallas, Texas
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I have been testing a theory since November...

With all the "card to wallets" that are out there, do laymen really give a .damn. about the "method" in which a card appears in a wallet? I wanted to put this to the test.

So, I have been performing 3 different card to wallets...all in the same night just to test the waters and see if one gets a better reaction than another.

In the first routine, I used The Real Mans Wallet which requires palming from the deck and loading into the wallet as you remove it from your pocket. The 2nd routine was using my own wallet with no palming. Just the basic dummy card in the wallet, remove it, bring it back to the deck, and a DL later, TADA! Signed Card.

The 3rd routine is MY routine...also a no palm routine using my wallet, that I have written up in my book Slightly Delusional.

So after 100s of performances of each other the last few months, I have come to the conclusion that...

PEOPLE DO NOT CARE!!!!! The amazement is evident regardless of what your doing. In their eyes, they sign a card, it's put back in the deck and it magically appears in an impossible location.

One method isn't stronger than the other...unless you're a magician.

So...those are my thoughts...

What are yours...?
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
mixman
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Northern Colorado
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I agree. How we do it is completely unknown to the audience (hopefully), so the performer should use the method that gets the most entertainment bang out of the effect.
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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I have said the method is not the thing.

In short we are paid for our skills with people not our skills with objects.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Christopher Lyle
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:

In short we are paid for our skills with people not our skills with objects.



BRAVO!!!!!
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dick Oslund
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Yes Danny! --snd, Christopner! and, mixman! The EFFECT IS WHAT THE SPECTATOR "SEES" OR, THINKS THAT HE/SHE SEES!

The METHOD IS WHAT TOO MANY MAGICIANS "SEE".

I have seen, and, I'm sure that you have seen, also, magicians applaud a performer (especially at magic convention shows)who does an exceptionally "clean" ateal of a load! --METHOD, technically, excellent!)

Al Flosso's METHOD for the Misers Dream, was ultra simple. Technically, it was almost crude! The EFFECT he created, was "on beyond Zebra"! Al's talent was
his "working" with a boy.

In the late '40s, as a teenager, I learned the Downs palm. I produced coins and dropped them into a Champagne glass! In my innocent young mind, it was technically a thing of beauty. I was trying to be "suave & debonair! A few years later, I did a "showing date" for an agent. He said, "That was fine! --BUT, can't you make 'em laugh?" I said,"I think so." He said,"Make 'em laugh, and I'll get you work!" I did, and he did. For the last 60 years,I have worked with a "bunch" of kids, a finger palm, and a "tin can". The Misers Dream closes the show. EFFECT NOT METHOD!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
pepka
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Uh, I'm the one on the right.
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Exactly.
Dannydoyle
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But lets be fair. If your goal is to impress every month at the magic club the thinking is different. If you want to impress family and friends with new tricks constantly your thinking is different.

I only ever perform for money and a constantly changing audience so that is what informs my opinion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dick Oslund
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Yup! That's a good point! Now retired, I do only an occasional club date or kid party. Some of them are "pro bono" (for my own church and/or club).

I started as a part time pro. at age 13 in 1945, and, turned full time about 20 years later. Almost 50 years later, I quit the road!

Once I developed material that played, except for occasional tweaks or editing, to stay topical, or, very occasionally add, or try out a new bit, the act stayed the same. The last time I added a "new" trick, was 1992, when I put in for the elementary kids (or Kdg.--12 grade)the Mutilated Parasol! (but, NOT, with the "standard" hokey VICTORIAN presentation!

When, on the road, I visited an occasional magic club meeting, and was asked to "do something", it was always a bit from my working act. Ditto, at a family party, when I was not on a tour. For the magic clubs, the bit was always something that took a lot of skill. (It was never something easily copied!)

If I ever get down to Chicago, I would like to get better acquainted! We have some "common roots"! For about ten years, I was a fairly regular "guest" in the Charlie Miller Suite, and would help out behind the counter. I remember Tim Felix and I spending a couple of weeks, one summer, sorting and bundling Jay's "accumulation" of old magazines so they could be sold.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
george1953
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The effect on the audience is what counts. If you do half a dozen different card to wallet methods the spectator should see the same effect. They should be unaware of the method used they just see the end effect. A card appearing in a wallet. I can't remember who said "if you know 100 ways of finding a card but only 1 way to reveal it, you have one trick. If you know 1 way to find a card but 100 ways to reveal it, you have 100 tricks".
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
Dick Oslund
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I don't remember who said that, either, George! But, it's absolutely TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember when I was about 14, buying a fifty cent manuscript from Percy Abbott, titled" "Fifty Crazy Card Tricks". Almost every one of those 50, began with: "F**ce a card, and....." It had some great and funny revelations. One didn't start with a f**ce! It was good for parlor, club, or platform! I used it when it was appropriate.

Karrell Fox wrote up some simple funny lines, put it in a lecture, and, I'm sure that many magicians, seeing the possibilities, used it. I know that I did! A few years later, a magic dealer put out a chair for "major money", that eliminated pa**m*ng a card.

"Fools Nobody" mentioned Eddie Fechter's routine for the same EFFECT, a few months ago.

Fifty cents!!!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
jay leslie
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I first perform a CTW then finish by "apparently" putting the card back in the box and it appears in pockets twice.
This gets a better reaction then just the wallet alone.

Gosh made a living by making coins and sponge balls appear under a salt shaker.
Christopher Lyle
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The main reason I began this thread, is because a very popular topic in this area seems to be which is the best card to wallet. I'm always seeing some thread pop up about wallets or which routines are the best etc. So it got me very interested in figuring out what is the best method out there to the eyes of layman.

And the answer is exactly what I expected it to be all along which is "it doesn't matter" as long as they are entertained. So why then waste all of your money on a collection of different wallets when you can use your own wallet and a little sleight of hand to accomplish the same thing.

Now I understand, my audience are real people. I do not go to magic clubs and try to amaze other magicians so if that's your goal I could see where buying all of these wallets would make sense. For me though, it's just seems rather silly.

Your mileage may vary...
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
mixman
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I think it is the old "oooooh shiny!" syndrome that overcomes a magician when they see something new. And I am as guilty as the next guy. I have a perfectly good LePaul wallet that I have been using forever. but still, I have once or twice succumbed to the urge of fresh leather.
twistedace
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philadelphia
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This is a great topic and I agree with Christopher's assessment. People do not care about method as long as it's presented properly and in an entertaining way. However, I still feel the need to be as clean as possible. This is more for me. I enjoy reading about new methods. Plus, I never know if new methods I learn will jog some new, creative idea. This is an awesome thread.
tommyellison
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, Christopher Lyle wrote:
I have been testing a theory since November...

With all the "card to wallets" that are out there, do laymen really give a .damn. about the "method" in which a card appears in a wallet? I wanted to put this to the test.

So, I have been performing 3 different card to wallets...all in the same night just to test the waters and see if one gets a better reaction than another.

In the first routine, I used The Real Mans Wallet which requires palming from the deck and loading into the wallet as you remove it from your pocket. The 2nd routine was using my own wallet with no palming. Just the basic dummy card in the wallet, remove it, bring it back to the deck, and a DL later, TADA! Signed Card.

The 3rd routine is MY routine...also a no palm routine using my wallet, that I have written up in my book Slightly Delusional.

So after 100s of performances of each other the last few months, I have come to the conclusion that...

PEOPLE DO NOT CARE!!!!! The amazement is evident regardless of what your doing. In their eyes, they sign a card, it's put back in the deck and it magically appears in an impossible location.

One method isn't stronger than the other...unless you're a magician.

So...those are my thoughts...

What are yours...?


First of all I wanted to tell you I enjoyed your visit with Successful Performancecast. Lots of good stuff in your presentation there.

Regarding the wallet, do you feel the spectator's ability to remove the sign card from your wallet is stronger then the magician removing the card himself to reveal the chosen card?
imgic
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Great topic...but let me ask you this...

If audience likes them all the same, which one do you, as a magician prefer?
Which do you find most fun to do? Or easiest? Or most satisfying?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Christopher Lyle
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Dallas, Texas
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Tommy,

Yes! I think it's stronger for the audience to remove the card. But if they've never seen a magician before or if they have but have never seen a c2w before, does it matter? Are we solving a problem that doesn't exist?

Glad you liked the podcast. 😉
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Christopher Lyle
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Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
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Imig,

The routine I have written up in my book is my go to. It uses my own wallet and a little sleight of hand.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
brehan
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holland
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Christopher were can I Buy your book?
silvercup
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2015, Christopher Lyle wrote:
Tommy,

Yes! I think it's stronger for the audience to remove the card. But if they've never seen a magician before or if they have but have never seen a c2w before, does it matter? Are we solving a problem that doesn't exist?



On the other hand, besides 4 fingers and a thumb, do not get into a "it's good enough" mentality either.
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