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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » What is the world's most powerful and violent "ism"? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicfish
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Nazism. Next topic.
balducci
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Without explicitly spelling it out, I'll say the most powerful 'ism' is the one that gave us all life.

Smile

Next topic.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
magicfish
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, balducci wrote:
Without explicitly spelling it out, I'll say the most powerful 'ism' is the one that gave us all life.

Smile

Next topic.

I like it, and I smiled. But it doesn't fly with the violence part.
balducci
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My bad. You're correct. I missed the violence mention in the topic heading.

Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, balducci wrote:
My bad. You're correct. I missed the violence mention in the topic heading.

Smile


It might have been a violent *ism
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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Are liberals really trying to make sense of his article or they willfully ignorant?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2015, tommy wrote:
Are liberals really trying to make sense of his article or they willfully ignorant?


Thoughtful people are working out what he means by "liberals". I believe that he means most of us here, as classical liberalism is the doctrine that the individual is the fundamental unit of concern in a society. (As opposed to, say, communitarians who believe that a collective is the fundamental unit.)

Pilger seems to be arguing that the aggressive exportation of rights-based politics (e.g. liberal in this sense) is the most dangerous force in the world. I doubt it, but it's a reasonable position.

I suspect that Pilger doesn't see much difference between the party-loyalists who call themselves Liberal or Conservative.

Are individual rights dangerous? Is it morally wrong to try to bring the world to acknowledgment of individual rights? What do you think?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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I think that in your case John you do not choose not to see what is in front of you, I rather think you have been trained not to.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2015, tommy wrote:
I think that in your case John you do not choose not to see what is in front of you, I rather think you have been trained not to.


I think Tommy, you are unable to understand what you've never read or studied.

But have it your way. If you think that the Liberal party fits Pilger's description better than the Conservative party (or Labour or what have you), feel free.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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I think John, you are unable to understand what you've read or studied.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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I think, tommy, you are playing the role of the little boy shouting at the big boys because the attention is so delicious.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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Oooh dear get on him thinking he is a big boy and turning all powerful and violent. Come on John, calm down now and get back into your cupboard.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Smile
But seriously folks.

Quote:
What is the world's most powerful and violent "ism"? The question will summon the usual demons such as Islamism, now that communism has left the stage. The answer, wrote Harold Pinter, is only "superficially recorded, let alone documented, let alone acknowledged", because only one ideology claims to be non-ideological, neither left nor right, the supreme way. This is liberalism.

In his 1859 essay On Liberty, to which modern liberals pay homage, John Stuart Mill described the power of empire. "Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians," he wrote, "provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end." The "barbarians" were large sections of humanity of whom "implicit obedience" was required. The French liberal Alexis de Tocqueville also believed in the bloody conquest of others as "a triumph of Christianity and civilisation" that was "clearly preordained in the sight of Providence".


He's clearly talking about the exportation of war in the name of individual liberty in that passage.

He slips quite comfortably to partisan ship

Quote:
"It's a nice and convenient myth that liberals are the peacemakers and conservatives the armongers," wrote the historian Hywel Williams in 2001, "but the imperialism of the liberal way may be more dangerous because of its openended nature - its conviction that it represents a superior form of life [while denying its] selfrighteous fanaticism." He had in mind a speech by Tony Blair in the aftermath of the 11 September 2001 attacks, in which Blair promised to "reorder this world around us" according to his "moral values". At least a million dead later - in Iraq alone - this tribune of liberalism is today employed by the tyranny in Kazakhstan for a fee of $13m.


But, of course, Blair was from the Labour party (falling nicely outside the Liberal-Conservative binary he constructed in the previous sentence. Blair's liberalism is "small l liberalism"--the kind that all Western Liberals, Conservatives, Labour, etc. espouse.

Has considerable harm been done in the name of liberty? Duh, yes. And in the name of empire. And of economics. And religion. None of this excuses anything; but it does call into question Pilger's main claim--that war and politics enacted in the name of liberty is the most destructive of all.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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“Liberals pay homage, John Stuart Mill...” That Big boy wanted to put people into institutions and knock them into the shape of his of his choice. Well clearly we are free at last! Free at last! Thank god almighty, we are free at last!

He is talking about it is alright to be a despot in order to civilize them. That liberates them you see and that takes you back to 1984 doublethink, clearly.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Mill was a man of his age in some respects, yet a leader beyond it in others. Mill placed individual liberty at the heart of democratic life and utterly changed the dynamic of political discourse in the West. He was also an early advocate for women's rights.

I'm not sure your reference to institutions, Tommy. Can you be more specific, or provide a reference, please?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
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Radical Islamic Terrorism.

Especially when you pretend it does not exist.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
tommy
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Pilger quotes Mill in the article.

"Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians, provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end."

- John Stuart Mill

John Stuart Mill argued that barbarians have no rights as a nation, except a right to such treatment as may, at the earliest possible period, fit them for becoming one.” That includes barbarian women.

The barbarians, well they are the people, the people who are different than the civilized liberals of course. The barbarians, they are the people who are just simply dictated to and told what they are supposed to believe and what they can and cannot say by the liberal institutions. Once they do as they are told well then they are deemed to be liberated. Then they are no longer barbarians such as I.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty1.html
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperiali......ill.html
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Absolutely Tommy. Mill was very intelligent and wise. In spite of that, he was dead wrong about a number of things.

We should be very cautious of attributing perfection to any of our forbears, be they philosophers, religious leaders, fathers of our nations, or even our favourite contemporary agitators.

Study them line by line, and be critical at all junctures.

You can't rule out the whole body of work because of these critical errors; and you should adopt anyone's work uncritically.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, balducci wrote:
My bad. You're correct. I missed the violence mention in the topic heading.

Smile



You obviously haven't seen 50 shades. (OK, actually, neither have I.)
drmagico
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Totalitarianism
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