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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 23, 2015, acesover wrote: I think what Kam was saying is that each infant is like a clean slate on which anything can be written, and that as adults it's our responsibility to write something worthwhile, while discharging that responsibility.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 23, 2015, S2000magician wrote: How so? If you don't mind sharing something obviously personal.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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RNK Inner circle 7493 Posts |
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On Feb 23, 2015, Tom Jorgenson wrote: Very well stated Tom. I would add that some hardened hearts are results of a hard and unfortunate upbringing. And once the animosity is bread and starts to settle in, one's heart is like concrete. Once the concrete on the outside starts to harden as time goes on it gets harder and harder to break thru until it's a solid piece. By then the heart is hardened and the life of misery is constant. I term these people as 'EC" people. One's that need EXTRA CARE. It's a sad thing as it was not their fault from the beginning. A prime example- ISIS or ISIL brainwashing children from the age of 3. These poor children will not have a chance and it's not even their fault.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: You see brother. We have so much in common. More than you give credit for Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On Feb 20, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 23, 2015, Tom Jorgenson wrote: That's very perceptive of you Tom. A little of the back story for the sake of context. I'm in Florida, taking advantage of the lower rates here for medical care, to finish up some dental work. I also had a world class cataract removed. This requires a stay of two months, during which I have a lot of down (recovery) time. Since they are relatives they refused to accept money for my room and board, so I've been doing some work on the house and such to compensate. I've also had time to talk to them, the sick woman in particular. As you correctly surmised she is a toxic person, and I've long had a policy of rejecting toxic people from my life. Due to the the circumstances and proximity I haven't been able to do so in this case. So I've attempted to "toss petals in her path" to no avail. What you said about people being born with a "happy heart or a miserable one" is something I've thought of often. Is it nature, nurture, our a combination of both. I Suspect it's the latter. My thoughts on the subject have led me to the conclusion that all emotions are derived from two basic ones - love and fear. I've found that people who love their life and love being alive, (love as their "prism") see the world as full of possibilities. For those people fear serves them properly, as a warning that something needs to be addressed and corrected. For those for whom fear is their "prism" everything is a threat, and love is a fleeting thing that always disappoints. This woman's whole life has been a vicious circle, her prism always serving to confirm her worldview. It's not that she never realizes that she's creating het own results, but that she can't. As you said nothing I say can get through because of that. I have up any hope of changing her viewpoint and lately I've been occupied with the question of what could possibly make her happy, assuming anything could. As I've spoken to her I've come to the chilling conclusion that the only thing that might would be if all those around her were to become as sick as she is. It seems that only that would give her the justice that she seems to need, but will never get. For me, it was a tough pill to swallow. The whole nature vs nurture debate strikes to the heart of the matter for me since we share the same close "blood", but I have always loved my life. I guess you can say that we come from a long line of pessimists. "Be careful", "don't trust that one", "don't take any chances" and the like, were the words most often spoken in my family when I was a child. Fear SHOULD inform my worldview but it always seemed stupid to be afraid all the time. I don't know, maybe I was really adopted. My spiritual views require me to value my time, and as I watch this woman squander the last of hers, I feel such a profound sense of pity. Since I feel each of us is responsible to ourselves above all else I've rarely felt pity. There is something very wrong with a world where such a horrible feeling is considered a virtue.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, kambiz wrote: Yes Kam I DO see, and I DO understand. My problem is with what you believe should be written.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I come from a very large family and I can relate to most any situation with family members.
But over the years I’ve found that an important lesson in life is this: One of the biggest favors that you can do for yourself is to accept your loved ones for who they are, and not be constantly disappointed because they are not who you think they should be. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, TomBoleware wrote: I agree. In fact I think it's a good way to deal with everyone. To me, it's not a matter of being disappointed. I think the only person who you can really be disappointed with is yourself. The question is with acceptance comes understanding, and once you understand how do you proceed with the relationship? Here's an interesting question - Is it possible to love someone without liking them?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: Not at all. We have three . . . well . . . offspring (at 33, 31, and 29 they're not really children any longer): two older boys and a younger girl. To the best of our ability, we provided them identical upbringing: nurture was essentially the same for all three. Yet, they have three extremely different personalities. All three are quite intelligent, but only one studious to the point of graduating from university. One is rather ambitious, the other two much less so. One is quite humanitarian, the other two much less so. One was diagnosed with ADHD very early, and later depression, spending some time in a psychiatric ward, and requiring pharmaceutical treatment. One was diagnosed with ADD relatively early, but can function well without medication. One was diagnosed with depression quite late, and requires medication. While it's an extremely small sample, I think that the results are significant. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: What's interesting (and sad) is that people can, for want of a better word, devolve to that state. My paternal grandmother was very much like her. She was a hoarder, and the plaintiff in lawsuits galore. And miserable. Trusting no one. Believing that everyone was after her fortune (such as it was). Bitter. My father used to castigate her for her outlook and actions, yet, late in life, I understand that he became just like her: distrusting, litigious, bitter. Now it appears that my older sister may be heading down the same path. It's saddening, but, as in your case, nothing I say or do has any effect. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: Heck, yeah! |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
"Here's an interesting question - Is it possible to love someone without liking them?"
Yes. It’s ok to have some family members just wait in the car. LOL No you don’t have to always agree with their actions or their beliefs, but I was raised that we can’t really disown family. They are part of a package deal. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 24, 2015, S2000magician wrote: I often think of how many people were written off in the past, who probably suffered from ADD or ADHD. When I was young you were "slow" or "forgetful" or just a "bad seed". I think we are over correcting now though. Seems like the best way to deal with a kid is to just diagnose and medicate. I'm glad it seems that your children have got it under control. I never would have guessed it though. You seem like such a happy, level headed guy.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Bill, education of children has several sources. Your parenting is only one of those sources
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Hi Dan,
Not sure what you mean by this? Quote:
On Feb 24, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Feb 25, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: For our eldest, the original "diagnosis" came from the schoolteacher. Even after a clinical diagnosis we spent months researching it ourselves - including treatments - before consenting to the use of medicine. The differences were day and night. I agree with you that many of these diagnoses and treatments are done cavalierly. All three are doing well; thanks for your good wishes. I am happy, generally. Those who know me best might debate you on the level-headedness, though. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Feb 25, 2015, kambiz wrote: I couldn't agree more, Kam. However, the stark differences in our children's personalities was quite evident at a very early age - well before they started school, for example - so parenting was probably 90% or more of it to that point. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Feb 25, 2015, kambiz wrote: Toward the end of the Jordan thread you said, and I'll paraquote - Altruism is "one of things that will be indoctrinated into the children, starting at an early age" If it's one of the things then there are more. Indoctrination equals forcing a mind to think. Regardless of your good intentions, it's always wrong. Usually it's "evil". I know you mean well but you're making the same mistake as countless others. You're doomed to fail and at the end of the day, you'll have the same excuse as they ALL did. You'll say "It would have worked but people weren't willing to sacrifice enough." One of the things you fail to realize is not only is no sacrifice necessary, but that none should be.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
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On Feb 25, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: Hi Dan, There is no sacrifice if the behaviours being taught become natural. Altruism can be a natural way of life. In regards to other behaviours being indoctrinated, lets see, I will list them for you and you tell me if it is evil: 1. Truthfulness 2. Humility 3. Honesty 4. Love for all 5. Respect 6. Courtesy 7. Trustworthiness 8. Orderliness 9. Compassion 10. Empathy 11. Enthusiasm 12. Creativity 13. Confidence 14. Perseverance and determination 15. Excellence 16. Flexibility 17. Forgiveness 18. Commitment 19. Gratitude 20. Joy 21. Moderation 22. Kindness 23. Patience 24. Responsibility 25. Justice and fairness. Would you be pull your child out of a school that "indoctrinated" your child in these behaviours? Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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