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abubaker New user Abu Dhabi, UAE 7 Posts |
Practical advice from Mr. Frank. This golden rule applicable not only to the cups and ball but also all the routines.
best advice. |
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Doc Svengali New user 66 Posts |
I have a somewhat different take on the cups and balls than articulated in this thread. The rule of thumb, which applies to ALL magic and not just the cups and balls is, that you must sustain the interest and engage your audience every minute of your act. If something is boring, you have two choices: get rid of it, or MAKE IT INTERESTING. If the appearances, disappearances, transpositions, etc. of a cups and balls routine are not strong enough to be worth doing without the final load sequence, your routine is not yet ready for prime time. The magical effects which precede the final loads must stand on their own; if they do not, trim, rework, tighten, and strengthen the narrative until they do stand on their own. Then first the audience will be thoroughly mystified, and following the final loads will be blown away.
Ultimately this is not about routine length, it is about quality, effective magic, successful and sustained audience engagement, and entertaining presentation. I have seen Master Payne's routine any number of times. He thoroughly engages and entertains his audience with a cups and balls routine over 17 minutes in length. |
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NightSG New user 67 Posts |
On the same vein, anyone have a suggestion specifically for the C&B sets with one of the cups being a chop cup? I've seen a couple of ways to integrate that into the routine, and one where I suspect all three cups were gimmicked, with gimmicked and normal balls swapped in as needed, but I'm sure someone has explored the added possibilities of a single chop cup in depth somewhere.
And how do you keep track of the gimmicked cup? The ball feels just different enough I can pick it out most of the time, but the cup looks identical from outside and not as obvious as I'd thought at first from inside. |
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dcjames Special user 577 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2017, NightSG wrote: Check out John Mendoza's C&B routine for a great example of putting a combo set through its paces: https://youtu.be/ZP-w80R-6cg There are many others as well. Best, Doug
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”
Tommy Wonder The Books of Wonder Volume 2 |
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NightSG New user 67 Posts |
Quote: On Oct 26, 2017, dcjames wrote:Check out John Mendoza's C&B routine for a great example of putting a combo set through its paces: https://youtu.be/ZP-w80R-6cg[/quote] |
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dcjames Special user 577 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, NightSG wrote: Hi NightSG, Combo sets that have the visible hump inside are made by modifying a straight cup after it is spun. The chop cups that Donnie makes at www.RNT2.com are designed and spun as chop cups from the start so they perfectly match their straight cup counterparts. Here's a link so you can see the beautiful combo sets that RNT2 has available: https://www.rnt2.com/cups/combo-cup-sets/ In my experience, there is absolutely no visible difference between the straight cups and the chop cup in higher quality combo sets like RNT2, Brett Sherwood, and the Johnson Products Cups, as well as many of the other sets currently available. I believe that at one time there was a professionally made set of three chopped cups available, but the exact details escape me at the moment. Hoping someone here can remind us of the name and manufacturer. Best, Doug
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”
Tommy Wonder The Books of Wonder Volume 2 |
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NightSG New user 67 Posts |
Quote:
Here's a link so you can see the beautiful combo sets that RNT2 has available: A bit out of the hobbyist price range. OTOH, I could definitely see it being a worthwhile investment for a pro. Quote:
I believe that at one time there was a professionally made set of three chopped cups available, but the exact details escape me at the moment. I ran across at least one routine from one of the guys who used to be reasonably well known back when the big thing was for magicians to look like gospel pianists, but forgot to make a note of the name. |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
[quote]On Oct 27, 2017, dcjames wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, NightSG wrote: My father made 1 set of triple combo cups in Traditional Cups, they were prototypes, but didn't pan out too well as far as performing with. I even tried and didn't care for them. So I just use a regular combo set now. It doesn't pay not to buy a combo set because down the road if you decide to and you already have a good set of cups it will cost you. Buy a combo set, if you don't want to learn or use it right away, just work with Regular balls. If the time comes, you want to do a combo routine, you just have to make a small change. Jake Jr.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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JoeHohman Special user Erie 706 Posts |
Mr. Mendoza never makes eye contact with the two young ladies at his table until about 1:15.
I think this is kind of what Frank was talking about. It is mystifying, it is excellently thought out and technically well-performed.... But is it entertaining? Maybe after the 1:15 mark. I just watched Ricky Jay's performance on YouTube. It goes on for over seven minutes -- I think most of us could deconstruct it and perform most of it without too much work, but it was a VERY entertaining seven minutes! |
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