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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts 
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Leland... way to go... few sets left, soon to become collector's items.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-02-12 20:51, wmhegbli wrote: Horsepuckey! There are certain moves that are really beautiful that can only be done with a set of cups that have a certain kind of balance. You can't do the rollback with a coffee cup. Bill is ignoring a couple of facts about Bob Read's routine. His routine, which appeared as "The Penultimate Cups and Balls," uses a coffee cup, a paper cup (basically the English equivalent of a Dixie cup) and a chrome plated metal cup from a standard cups and balls set. It was done as a gag routine for magicians and was not really conceived of as a routine to be performed for the public. There are too many "magician" gags in it for that purpose. It is basically the Dai Vernon routine with a few things added and others taken away. Bob credits all of this in his notes. To say that Bob uses ordinary cups for coffee is to ignore all of the other work he has done with the cups and balls that use sets that go back a couple of hundred years. This is tantamount to saying that Jules DeBarros is that guy who uses copper-silver coins, just because he had a couple of routines that used them in his book The Coins of Ishtar. While it may be possible to do most routines for the cups and balls without considering the balance of the cups, there are some moves which actually depend on the balance of the cups to make them possible.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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RenzIII Veteran user 318 Posts
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Well, perhaps "I love magic" is just saying he would like an inexpensive set of cups for learning and getting the feel for cups and balls. Perhaps when he begins to understand the effect better and gains passion for it he will then go toward a more professional set.
To be honest, I have a set of Sherwood Cups and I love them, but I am still working on other routines, one with two mugs. I like to play around with a lot of different cups, its the magicians nature in me. What Pete says is quite right. (It is the routine and presentation when you get down to it.) |
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts
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I think we all agree that the routine and presentation is the final determining factor in whether or not the show is good.
That being said, it is also true, and I don't think anyone would argue this, that good quality props make you feel better about the work. They help inspire you. Also, those who are father along in experience can tell you the most expensive cups are those you buy first and discard as you work your way through to the correct cups for you. As such, don't buy the horse twice and if you are any kind of sleight of hand magician, you will learn and quite possibly perform the cups and balls. Even if you only learn it for the lessons it can provide, quality, rather than crap, will only help. By all means buy a $5.00 set of plastic cups if you just want to be able to say you "own the trick", but if you want to explore all that it has to offer, I would recommend something on the equivalent of the Penguin Cups. At only a $100, you get an excellent cup set that will enable a thorough exploration of the routines possible. Of course the $20.00 aluminum set will let you do some of the moves, but after you get hooked you will realize you need more. So why not put that $20.00 toward a set of cups you can grow with. Otherwise, borrow a set from a friend to get it out of your system. And don't get me started on using coffee cups. Sheesh! That is like just performing the end of Hamlet, rather than the whole play. This also goes to those who say, I don't care about the early phases, anything will do, as the audience only remembers the loads anyway. Well, perhaps the way you perform it. This is not to say that some can't do a passable job with those props. But they could do a more respectful job with the correct props. Just do a different trick if you don't have the props with you. Do the coin under the hat/breadbasket. Malini killed with this. It has a big load which is all they remember anyway (sic). Kirk |
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RenzIII Veteran user 318 Posts
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Well KirkG,
Those are all good points I agree. Actually I personally think the Penguin Cups, are a great place to start, I don't think $100.00 is killer price either. When I perform professionally, I use my good cups. I agree good quality props make you feel better about the work, and make the difference, If you could afford great cups, then by all means, its the way to go. As far as the coffee cups, I said I was working with 2 mugs, when I said mugs, I meant two fellow magician friends, I call them mugs. 
Just kidding, I guess I can get out of that one. I am sad you don't like to mug idea, I was also working on a killer routine with Dixie Cups, ping pong balls as loads, …wait and see. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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If you are not going to work as a professional performer there is no need to invest in expensive cups.
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts
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There is never a "need" to "invest" in expensive cups. These are "wants" and a amateur or a professional all have wants. Now, a good quality cup, IS necessary for maximum growth.
On the subject of mugs, I don't want to offend anyone one who uses these props, but give it some thought. Have you ever seen a mug routine that is as good as the best "standard" cup routines? I think no. They are all shortened or lesser versions. Does that mean no one will ever think of one? No, absolutely not! So by all means continue to explore and develop and you may create the one that gets me to say, "I got to get me some mugs!" You must remember we are discussing a classic of magic. Classics are such because they have stood the test of time. The plot is clear, the magic strong. Can they be improved? Of course, but beware, a lot of time and thinking has already taken place, so your first thought may not be something that hasn't already been tried and discarded. If it doesn't really make the trick more amazing and more strong, just different, is it an improvement? Kirk G |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Mugs may wish to distract themselves with props. And some sets of cups are quite pretty.
The magic does not depend on the props per-se. For the most part the magic depends on the abilities of the performer to create the moments where an audience can experience the feeling.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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When I first entered magic a teacher of mine in Junior High, showed me the Dai Vernon routine in Stars of Magic using the Fun Inc. plastic set and for the finale he produced ping pong balls on a hard table top, no close up pad.
I was inches away, no sound at all. It was very impressive. If he would have used $500 dollar cups, the same result would have happened. No NEED to by overpriced pieces of metal. Yes they are attractive. Are they an ordinary object, NO. Are they flower pots, Maybe. |
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Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts
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True, as has been said by everyone else on here, you can use any type of cup, Flower pot, etc., you want to.
But before you decide to use one or the other one really needs to experiment with the various options. By the way, I am of the belief that a good set of cups should be purchased at some point in time by everyone. They don't have to be the Sherwood cups but at least get a good set like Johnson's, Von Dokum. Magic Makers/penguin etc. Then after that you can have a good over view of the cups and pick which ones you want to use. Do I have a good set of cups? Yes. Do I use them all the time? Depends on the type of show I am doing. I may use them or I may use coffee cups. Just depends on what fits the circumstances best. What I am trying to say is it is better to have at least a couple of picked options to you available at anytime. Not to just have one option and that is that. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
...good set of cups should be purchased at some point in time by everyone. They don't have to be the Sherwood cups ... Everyone? Laymen too? Feel free to send me a set of Sherwood cups. Make that a few sets so I can serve wine or liquor when company comes over. For magic however, I will be using the ice cream cups for a while.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts
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Oops, kind of post wrong, didn't I? That’s me, open mouth before starting brain. What was my thinking? I don't know now. But hey, at least I can provide a bit of entertainment on here from time to time, huh?
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-02-15 14:50, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Sure, I think all laymen should have a couple of good sets of cups lying around, so that when we entertain at their private parties, we can go right in and do our favorite routines without having to carry our own props. Can you imagine how neat it would be: "You wouldn't happen to have a set of Paul Fox copper cups lying around, would you? Excellent? May I borrow them for a moment to show your guests a couple of really nice pieces of magic?" ;)
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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I've been bugging Steve to get some coffee mugs made with the Café logo. For chop-chop cups! Could be used and given as gifts... and used for magic too.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Randy Sager Elite user 409 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-02-15 16:48, Bill Palmer wrote: Sure Bill, I will send them out tomorrow. 
Oops, that's the first time I screwed that up again! |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-02-15 17:03, Jonathan Townsend wrote: If Steve did get some of those nifty plastic cups made up that have the two-piece construction, they wouldn't be that hard to gaff.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts
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Well Folks, after following this forum for some time I have finally become hooked by the Cups and Balls thing!
Given the good exchange rate I've ordered from Penguin in the USA just this minute. I've decided to "do it properly" so I just ordered Ammars Complete Cups and Balls Book and as a little special extra to inspire me, a superb looking Wand down to $15.99 that's equal to £8.33 it costs £22 on the sites over hear. I'll get the basics mastered using some coffee cups or similar then I aim to go for the Bazar de Magia Brass Cups, again from the States at magiclegends.com These look a very good cup to me in all respects. (I hope nobody pops up and says otherwise!!) Do you think the book is all that's required or should I get the DVDs as well at some stage? Thanks everyone for a very informative thread any other comments. Now that I've gone and done it… are welcome. Howard |
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Frankm6 Loyal user 299 Posts
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Anybody know how to make copper cups tarnish faster? Thanks.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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Not really, but mine didn't take long. You have to be sure there is no lacquer coating preventing the tarnish, and handle your cups daily. The sweat and oils from your hands seems to do a good job at discoloring the cups. Just handle them frequently (practice would be good) so they discolor evenly rather than just some isolated fingerprints.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-02-20 15:35, hkwiles wrote: Howard, Congratulations! At least get some cups that don't have handles on them, so they are a bit easier to work with. The DVD’s will be a big help. I've been mucking about with the cups on and off for over 50 years. I got the DVD’s anyway, and picked up a couple of hints that were worth it. Then I got the book, just because it is easy to work from. The DVD's are really enough. I think they augment the book a lot.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Posted: Feb 13, 2004 06:12 pm 
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