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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Please take a second to answer my poll (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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warren
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I would like to ask a question via a poll.

Do you think its ok for a professional magician/dealer to openly show how classic magic effects such as card to wallet and flipper coins work via open videos and photo's without the need for a password to stop people being able to just put key words for example card to hip wallet in google and then be able to find out the exact working of said effects ?

If you think this is perfectly acceptable just put yes

If you think this is not appropriate just put no
JoshTmagic
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I think you need to drop this issue.
warren
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How about how many magicians on this site belong to a magic club and how many swore an oath when they joined to say that they would not expose magic knowingly ?
Dick Oslund
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You have almost answered your own question!

Obviously, it's a NO. Not only is he violating the ethics, he is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs!

I am curious why Josh T. (above) made the comment which he made.
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JoshTmagic
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The reason I said drop the issue is because this is. Topic of another thread and warren got bashed on so I just didn't want any other arguments started

And Mr.Oslund he is referring to the site prop dog. Do you find anything wrong with this site?
themagiciansapprentice
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In this digital age we can dislike KIDS openly ignoring oaths of secrecy but there is not a lot in reality we can do
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Dick Oslund
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Hi Josh!

I hope your 'war injury' is healing OK.

Now! regarding the above! Perhaps I was "born too soon"! I am at a loss about "site prop dog"! ==And. I'm certainly not sure what is "wrong with this site".

The OP got "bashed"?

Then the "magicianspprentice" talks about disliking "KIDS", and "ignoring oaths of secrecy", etc.???

I plead "stupidity"! --or, at least, ignorance!

Perhaps, Josh, you would enlighten me. (PM, if you prefer)

Thanks! (I think!!!)
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Mr. Danny
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No
ROBERT BLAKE
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NO
Terrible Wizard
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Not acceptable to expose.
Hansel
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No
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jay leslie
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Quote:
On Mar 14, 2015, warren wrote:
How about how many magicians on this site belong to a magic club and how many swore an oath when they joined to say that they would not expose magic knowingly ?


The answer is H@ll NO (If you're not into psycho babble then skip the next part)

Sharing with ernest people who use information to better their performance is completely different then exposing secrets for the sake of A. Ego B. Revenge C. Stupidity D. Insecurity or E. confusion between Exposure and Acceptance. Reread that last one. It's a misguided person that's been bullied who themselves become a bully so they are not the victim. Another way to look at it is that exposure could be a misguided concept where a person confuses Attention with Affection.

How many of you know someone who's taken three magic lessons then print business cards advertising they teach magic? The funny part is that a year later they have a dozen students!

Some people expose other people's hard work just to prove they have developed mastery of that effect. This is usually caused by deep seated insecurity misinterpreted as appreciation and the need to show same.

So the answer to the OP is No. No, No, No... no. (Psycho babble over)

When I stood behind the counter of my retail store, I didn't sell people tricks simply because they looked in the showcase and thought something was interesting. I tried to unveil secrets slowly and at their level for their own good and the good of the art. I often saw people become disenchanted with magic because they learned things too fast - it came too easy. There has to be a challenge to learn something in order for it to mean something and have value otherwise the person feels it has no value and throws it away.

I'll get off my soap box now.
warren
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Thank you for the comments after some reading comments made on a thread I put in the secret sessions section I was beginning to wonder what had happened to having ethics amongst magicians these days.......It's nice to have my faith restored Smile
warren
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Quote:
On Mar 14, 2015, themagiciansapprentice wrote:
In this digital age we can dislike KIDS openly ignoring oaths of secrecy but there is not a lot in reality we can do


Unfortunately it's not some child on youtube giving away secrets but a professional magician and dealer.....I just think anything he shows that gives away secrets should be password protected with a simple question that any magician would know such as " who is the professor " I'm not saying not to advertise goods I'm just asking for the secrets of our trade not to knowingly be given away to anyone that can use google by fellow professions.
MattyWhipple
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I think it was Lance Burton who's theory was that purposely exposing our methods forces us to create new methods and thereby ensures the continued evolution and survival of our craft.

Come on... as much as you might hate to admit it, you can't argue with that logic.

Of course, on the flip-side, it sure is a damper blowing people away at one of my restaurants, all the while knowing in the back of my head that if they go home and get all google happy, I just might get slightly less amazing to them.

It sucks. We practice really hard. We study really hard. And to have all that hard work given away for free to the uninitiated cheapens the art and honestly, it hurts my feelings.

So all-in-all my conclusion it that despite Burton's solid logic and good intentions, I am still against it and I'm sure I always will be. It's insulting to me. Plain and simple. Rant complete. Whipple out.
ZachDavenport
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I can easily argue with that logic. This is an obvious no.
Reality is a real killjoy.
MeetMagicMike
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I can easily argue with that logic too. I chided Rick Lax for exposing a certain set of gimmicked coins on Penguin's site. I respect Rick and he replied graciously but I think he went too far in that case.

I wonder if the people who think that Prop Dog's exposure is ok have really watched the video. He went into far far more detail than was necessary by any stretch if the imagination.

The idea that people would have to Google the actual name of a trick to find it might have been true 10 years ago but search engines are incredible now. Googling Card to walled might not bring this video to the top today but it won't be long.

(Oh and Warren clearly stated in the other thread that he was going to start a poll in another thread and why)
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pepka
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Uh, I'm the one on the right.
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Do I think it's OK, no. But I can tell you that ordinary people do not care. In over 15 years of being a professional close up magician, not ONE TIME have I had an ordinary person say "I bet that's one of those wallets with a hole in it, or a hollowed out coin." They know Svengali and Stripper decks and thumb tips. In this day and age, anyone with internet service and a credit card can find out how ANYTHING works. The important thing is to make YOU the interesting thing in the performance, not the wallet, coins and other props.
MeetMagicMike
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I agree Pepka but only to a certain extent. Many people are going to watch that video and know more than they would have. Magic should be shared on a need to know basis.

Just because magic is someones hobby doesn't mean they should be given everything. If you have to pay for secrets you will be selective but if dealers just post the how to for every magic trick it will certainly be a detriment.

Let's say that you watch a video and learn all about some arcane unseen magical technique or device. A month later you go to the Magic Castle and watch a magician using that very thing. You might be very impressed with how well he uses it but does that compare to the feeling you would have had if you had no idea how it was done?

Magicians of the past who argued that exposure wasn't a problem were talking about very limited exposure. We might not be able to do much about exposure but at the very least we should point out gratuitous examples and ask that people in the magic community consider the issue.
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jay leslie
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If anyone feels it's OK to expose then I challenge them to hand out the directions before they begin.
I challenge them to change their patter to "in a second I'm going to do a false transfer, so don't be misdirected by my smile or the other hand waving in the air, just keep watching as I throw the hidden coin in this big specially designed pocket inside my coat (show pocket).
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