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Kevin Fortin New user 90 Posts |
Mr Gray, I would agree that we as practitioners -- to whatever extent we have agency -- are responsible for casting the aura round whatever events might occur in a performance or a display, but maybe there is much unsaid or unwritten because already assumed, or perhaps already stated, about silence and timing and the placement of utterances and the emanation of vibes. An evocative prop is an important player on the stage, but not the only one. Even so, it must be given its space to have its wordless say.
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 21, 2015, Arkadiy K wrote: Well said.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
Hi my names Declan and I'm a propoholic...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
I've got to stop reading this post. I decided to try it and had a wake without a coffin, since props are not performance, and it didn't go well with a fat, naked guy laying on a stainless steel gurney. Some things are just better off imagined than seen and other things better not seen at all. I will never do another prop-less funeral again.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
I think, at least for me, it comes down to scripting. Writing a good script is difficult and not everyone is a writer. The props are so cool, one just have to own them. but the majority don't come with a story. So the performance is "I found this old device, let's see if we can contact the spirits." ding, ding, ding! "wow! the spirits are here." Here's another spooky thing... etc. I know I could use someone to write some amazing scripts.
s |
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
You can pay someone to write a script for you if you don't have the time or creativity. It'll cost real $. Or do it yourself, even if you think you can't. Try. Try again. Fail. Fail again. Fail better. Just do it for 10 minutes a day, everyday. Be consistent in your efforts. Don't worry about "failing". The creative process is a process. Do you know how many balls I dropped before I learned to keep them in the air? None of those dropped balls were wasted. They were all part of my ultimate accomplishment.
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 22, 2015, reese wrote: Great advice! As a writer, I try to write everyday. Most of what I write never makes it to the final edit but it keeps my mind thinking about what I am trying to do. Even if it is unrelated, write every day something, anything. I was once told that if I write 3 pages a day I would have a thousand pages at the end of a year. That usually equates to about 200 usable pages. Another suggestion is try to write at the same place every time. In a very short time it will train your mind to switch to writing mode when you sit in that same place. Good luck, writing is hard work and takes perseverance. Weepin' Willie 'Your friend til the end." (and beyond if the check clears)
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
Some tips that really helped me with writing:
Go to sleep with a pad and pen by your bed. As soon as you wake up, start writing - it doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be good, it doesn't have to serve any sort of purpose, just write and keep writing for two minutes. Build up until you can keep writing for five minutes and then 10 minutes. Your internal quality control shouldn't be kicking in, you shouldn't be trying to rationalise what you're writing - you can do that later. You may find it helps to begin with a short phrase, just to get the pen moving - "Once upon a time in La-la Land..." or "In Xanadi did Kubla Khan an ancient pleasure-dome decree..." - anything you can easily recall before your brain is properly awake. You're conditioning yourself to be able to "just write" whenever you want/need to. One of the biggest threats to writing and creative endevour in general is having that internal critic kick in too early. That voice that asks "But how does this fit with the plot?" or "Isn't this character a bit one-dimensional?" is your enemy at this stage. Of course, there is a point in any project when you want to bring that nit-picker to the fore - but you must save it until later or you risk killing ideas before they have a chance to mature.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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Godzilla Inner circle Tied & Untied Witches on 5316 Posts |
A thought on this ... without some props, there would be 'NO' performance !
Not saying all, but some performance are based on a certain prop. I've not mastered being able to do REAL MAGIC (reading minds,seeing future,flying,etc...) yet !
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
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Eddie Garland Inner circle Hells Kitchen, New York City 4207 Posts |
Just occurred to me but...The iconic symbol, the image that stands for Theatre/Acting itself is Alas that of Hamlet holding aloft the prop "poor Yorick."
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
It could be a pretty lame show if you left your props at home....
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Let me suggest this if you would be so kind to indulge and comment.
As an example, if Mr. Gray's show is 15 minutes long and he uses 1-2 props. Would it be fair to say based on that average; an hour show may consider using 4-8 props? A 1.5 hour show 6-12. Would that be considered prop heavy? How long is your show? How many props do you use? Does length of show have "anything" to do with it? When does it become too many? Can it ever be too many, if it’s entertaining? I guess I'm milking this thread now
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 23, 2015, Darkness wrote: My performance is durational. I try to allot 15 minutes to each audience member that comes into the room. Sometimes it is longer. Most of the time, I use zero props. Story telling & experience is my pejorative. In addition, you are missing the point entirely. Dig deeper.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
I think that's "a lot" easier to do in a 15 minute performance than an hour with no props? Not sure I would want to sit for an hour and listen to someone tell a story no matter how good it was. But then again plays bore me for the most part.
BTW, I think I've made some valid points that do demonstrate that I get it on several levels. I'm try to think outside the box, but you are on the inside of that box for the most part with the lid closed Let me ask you a question. If story telling & experience is your goal, are there any considerations for the other elements of a show? Could you say engage someone for 3 hours with nothing but your voice? What are the parameters and scope so we can define our boundaries. What I 'm hearing is as long as you have a good story and experience it can go on... forever? There are limits I can endure comfortably in the confines of what I find entertaining. 15 minutes, piece of cake, but that is only one type of show. What about the other types of shows? Are we considering them in this conversation? Otherwise it's a silly argument if we don't narrow it down a bit. Also, I like some visual stimulation, as I'm sure most do. Could that have no value or place? Under what conditions? I can sit and listen to Gandalf talk for hours as long as he brings the CGI team.... He is ok though for 15 minutes under florescent light and bare stage, he can actually just stand there, he has presences but that only goes so far..... Define the boundaries please. I'm willing to bet you will not address these question or any of the other ones I asked. It may be pointless to continue. Clearly you have something else to share other than dig deeper? Why don't you grab a shovel and help p.s. I should say I can watch stand up comics for hours but not a bizarrist....
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
The only universal truth is that there are no universal truths. And even that is only partially true.
Hail Eris.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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Intrepid Inner circle Silver Spring, MD 1178 Posts |
The various responses have been interesting and show a variety of interpretations of Gray's opening statement.
I saw nothing in Gray's statement that the use of props should be discouraged as a rule. Rather I had interpreted Grey's statement to be along the lines of "Actors use props, but props are not actors" or "Artists use paint, but paint is not art." In other words, props can be used in a performance, but props are not performance. The performer himself and his mastery of performing skills is what makes for a captivating performance. The props he uses are merely a tool at his disposal to aid in the presentation. However, when props are used as a crutch to compensate for poor presentation skill is where the problem is. Perhaps Mr. Gray can comment on whether my understand is on target, or once again has completely missed the mark here.
Bob
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
I interpreted it the same as you. Although I also sensed an element of disparaging the use of paint in art (to extend your excellent metaphor) - implying that art with no paint is superior to art with lots of paint,
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Even though I'm not a bizzarist, this has been a very interesting thread. Keep talking ... lurkers are lurking.
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Intrepid Inner circle Silver Spring, MD 1178 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 24, 2015, MatCult wrote: In rereading Mr. Gray's comments, I don't see that as being his point here. Rather, YitzhakNoDice seems to have articulated the concern perfectly in the following post. Quote: On Mar 17, 2015, Mr Timothy Gray wrote:
Bob
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
Personally, I doubt that there are any of these "line up the props and trigger them one by one" performers out there in the real world. Maybe they exist in magic clubs. But I can't see them actually doing it "out there".
I'm sure, as with any art form that becomes a hobby, there are many mediocre bizarre performers out there - but I doubt they are doing shows and I certainly don't think they represent "the future of the art" any more than a bedroom watercolour dabbler represents the future of painting. My interactions here on the Café and elsewhere leave me with the impression that the people who frequent Spooky are far more likely to adapt routines, re-frame props or create their own scripts from scratch than the majority of "straight" magicians or mentalists - who are, in the main, happy to perform a trick with the exact patter that comes on the accompanying DVD. In my opinion, this thread is decrying an imaginary problem. The people here are very original and very inspired. Anyone who takes the time to scratch the surface and engage with the community will see this. So I don't share this bleak view of the future of bizarre magic. But I've mentioned this point of view already several times in the thread and nobody has addressed/acknowledged it. I'll accept (once again) that there's a lot of discussion of products in Spooky. Welcome to a capitalism/consumerism. You want to change that you'll have to do a lot more than ask "challenging" questions on a niche segment of an internet forum. In the meantime, if people want to start topics on the art, the craft, the storytelling or any other aspect of the art, there's a button at the top that says "Post new topic". B-i-t-c-h-ing (wow, they edit that!) about it won't do anything. Lead by example. Inspire change with positive action not negativity. Just my tupennyworth.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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