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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
None of the spiritualists I know use billets or slates.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
This is going to be fun!
You know, I came to Bizarre through Spiritualism. In many ways, I went to Mentalism through Bizarre - & then back to Spiritualism - & now I walk this tight-rope of Fortune-Teller/Medium. Anyway... 'Is the use of billets or slates still relevant?' I think anything is relevant provided you create a context for it. Something is only irrelevant if it serves no purpose. Perhaps you mean 'dated'? Maybe. I don't know. If I say, 'Once upon a time, mediums used slates...', well, then, a context is created - however simply - for the use of that object. The folks who say, 'Dry erase boards are more modern,' have never seen an actual medium at work - & mediums have never used dry erase boards, as far as I know or have witnessed. There is no context for the use of a dry erase board. 'Is there a commercial interest in such an act?' 50% of my material is made up of Spiritualistic phenomenon - the other 50% is Fortune-Telling. People love talking to the dead & love to have their fortune told. The fact is: there's always interest in good theatre - however long lasting that is, is an entirely different matter. 'Fraudulent mediums anyone?' I've talked about my experiences in the Spiritualist church (in Scotland) many times. The modern Spiritualist medium - & this does not include media-mongers like John Edward or Sylvia Browne - are not, by my definition, frauds. They make little to no money from their work - always a collection of coins after the service. These are people who genuinely believe in what they are doing. Do I believe in what they are doing? No. Do I judge them for believing in themselves? No. Rather, I think it's just sad. We've all got our own burdens - we all seek our own forms of relief, hope, etc. - & that's their way.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Billets and slates are stock in trade, not overly original, but like Mr Gray says in the appropriate context. I just think it's a little like low hanging fruit not overly creative like watching a band play stairway to heaven it can still rock with the right singer.
Commercial depends how entertaining it is, but again, I think it's over used but I like Zep and if you have never seen them live you might like them too. What are the connections with bizarre magick, spiritualists and spiritualism? 3 degrees of separation I'm willing to guess. Like blues is connected to rock. Oh sorry I thought this was the classic rock forum.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
Billet-work is not "low lying fruit", to disparage it's expert application towards any story you might want to tell says you don't know billets or what to use such a useful tool for. Yrs in the Wrks, Bert
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Reese I'm entitled to my opinion. I also don't like card tricks... Stock in trade, you enjoy. Different strokes....
But I do have a dove pan that I use to close with and it slays. BTW what the heck is a billet? Isn't that the thing on the end of a card duck?
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2015, Darkness wrote: Here is one. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/uploa......4109.jpg |
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Brian J. Hatcher New user Charleston WV 52 Posts |
Knowing some of the methods used by various parlour mediums, and also that Tony Raven co-founded the P.E.A., spiritualism and bizarre magick seems to me a chicken-or-egg type situation. To answer RCP's question about how well such themes play for modern audiences, I would say that, given the right audience and the right mood, it will play very well. The number of people here involved with the performance of bizarre magick seem to back that up. And yes, I believe you can use still billets and slates and "get away with it". In my experience, using the traditional props of spiritualism give verisimilitude to the performance. And with Guillermo Del Toro giving us a good, old-fashioned gothic ghost story movie this October with Crimson Peak, interest in this type of performance may be due for an upswing.
Maior Cogitatio Magiam Maiorem Facit
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MentalistCreationLab Inner circle 1528 Posts |
Okay hold on a moment some of you are confusing early Spiritualism aspects with seance work. Which did not technically enter in to the world of Bizarre Magick till Brother Shadows work on the subject aka Have Seance will Travel.
Although others were doing seance stye work a few years prior it was not classed as a form of Bizarre Magick until Brothers Shadows work was released. Which is an important distinction to make since that single work defined the seance in the context of Bizarre Magick. However decades earlier when Dunninger did his thing on spiritualism and it was from the point of view of the "fraudulent medium", however, interesting as that presentation was it was not completely correct in a spiritualism view point due to the fact that many of the devices he illustrated were created by magicians who also trained some alleged mediums so they could expose them later. Except for the spirit trumpet and tambourine which was introduced in to the spiritualist vernacular by Koons at his spirit house which was built after he received a message from a spirit in a session with Tippes daughter. The Spirit Trumpet was modeled after one of the instruments that was seen among the instruments at Koons cabin before it was burned to the ground by the town folk by a fraudulent magician / medium and not a spiritualist whom attended one of the Koons sessions when he was a young man with his father later he would remember this and craft that fine piece of equipment we all know and love today. Now if someone can tell me this magicians name I may actually be impressed. As that info is one hard secret in magic to find out. But its there if you willing to hunt that info down. No I never going to tell just point the way to a mystery within our history. Anyway within a few years after Shadows work first appeared would begin to give rise to the form of BM we have today which is not the form it started as. Therefor the point I making is that BM has changed form its original conception and today it is a much different form than when it started out. In many ways much better and in a few much worse. The other point I would like to throw on the table is that the History of Bizarre Magick should be recorded by some one not just the Tony Andruzzi and a select few others like Brother Shadow but all of its history and all of its creators. Yes I know its a monumental task but some of its earlier participants are still with us and many have joined the world of the spirits. If you get a chance to speak with some of these brilliant folk whom are still around ask them to tell you a story about the old days of BM you may just learn a few things you will be able to use the rest of your life and I not speaking about tricks either. In the early days of the Bizarre there was a method of performance which I find very interesting from both a historical perspective and a performance perspective. Bizarre Magick like spiritualism is experiential one really can not learn about it from a book. |
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2015, Darkness wrote: Huh?
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Allan Kardek Regular user Toronto 194 Posts |
Sorry to post and run earlier, but now I have some time to be more specific.
Modern Bizarre Magick as we know today, did originate in the 50's and 60's (Cameron and Shiels) but it's roots go way back. Some may argue that the first Bizarre Magick book is "Discoverie of Witchcraft". Modern Bizarre came out of the need to turn traditional conjuring upside down. Sort of like the punk scene did in the 70's with their dislike of where the music scene was heading. Some wanted to put the magician back into "magician", where the magician was someone who manipulated the laws of nature for their own bidding. Some wanted to make people's skin scrawl and while others wanted to weave a good story. What brought them together is that they wanted something different then the current magic scene at that time. As Bob Cassidy said, modern Mentalism came out of Spiritualism. Billet readings, book tests, second sight, slate tests all came from spiritualists and mediums. When you look at spirit effects from Annemann or even up to Corrinda, they were associated with mentalism, bizarre wasn't even thought of yet. So somewhere along the line, mentalism and bizarre crossed paths. When that happened, I'm not sure but I do know the Invocation had mental effects, Bascom's Magick had mental, tarot, occult and spirit effects. So somewhere around there spiritualism stuck it's foot into the doorway of bizarre and has now made permanent residence there. Bizarre Magick is a big tent, Craig. Does it have to be Occult? Of course not. Does it have to be defined? No, to each style their own, I think it just has to be presented not like a traditional magic trick. My only concern where Bizarre magick is heading, it's becoming stagnant with spirit related stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love seances and spirit magick but besides the stuff Alchemy Moon puts out, there isn't a great deal of diversity anymore. Even the majority on the threads here are spirit related. Another thing I noticed, there isn't a whole lot of literature being written anymore, mostly gaff props. Sure there's been a few 30pg ebooks but hardly any volumes, like Prof's new book or Paul Prater's Maleficium few and far between if you ask me. Is such an act commercial? Well, it all depends really. Demographics, marketing, the performer, what type of act, etc have to be considered when deciding if it is commercial. There's my 4 half-pennies worth Cheers, Allan |
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PROF BC Inner circle 1445 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2015, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Here here! Well said. As I have written elsewhere, for me, 'bizarre' magic is about the atmosphere created. Story, presentation, prop, exploration with (rather than for) the spectator, with the focus upon taking the audience into a realm of *slightly* altered reality (what I have called paratheatrical performance) is what constitutes the art form. Technical skill is important, even vital. It is an art form after all. Performance ability, likewise, is essential. This includes acting and writing ability, both of which are necessary to creating the moment. A prop that works as a convincer, that's on a shelf below technical and performance aptitude, but also significantly important as it is the thing that appears to be the focus from the spec's perspective and therefore needs to play its part in the atmosphere being summoned. The presenter shifts focus from the usual 'watch what I can do/alakazam' mindset of the magic-trickster in order to delve into the 'reality' of the thing that lies before us: the unusual history of an extraordinary artifact, the sad background of an antique photograph, &c. that eventually (and surprisingly) manifests its haunting before a reasonably surprised viewer. The thing seems to have a life of its own while the presenter almost entirely vanishes from the perception of the viewer (very unlike the stage illusionist, finger flinger, &c. who keeps the attention centered on his craftiness and wily ability to deceive.) For this form of the art, it is much more about teasing out the surprising 'reality' of the moment. The rest of it, for me, is window dressing, whether vampire, curator of curiosities, occultist, Satanist, collector of haunted artifacts, spiritualist, Malibu Dream Housian, or what have you; I have seen exquisite examples of many approaches, all of which I would be quick to applaud as moving the art form forward. BC
Phasmologist
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Led Zeppelin was a band that formed in 1968 maybe before you were born
Oh sorry, the other Huh? Ok maybe it's was too deep of an analogy. That was the creative side of my brain talking in a performance art kind of way. Not everyone likes Warhol... Again trying to make the same point in a different creative way. I'm not a fan of billets, I don't use them, doesn't mean they are not awesome, just my opinion. I also don't like mushrooms a texture thing I'm afraid.... Does that make me weird or wrong? Ok I’ll be serious, billets and slates relevant? Not for me....
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 26, 2015, PROF BC wrote: Bingo! There really is no right or wrong answer (is it relevant etc.). It depends, but you should move forward in some capacity even if it is with slates and billet That's a whole thread in itself. How do you move forward?
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Brian J. Hatcher New user Charleston WV 52 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 26, 2015, Darkness wrote: That is the question every artist spends his entire life answering. It is the understanding and refining of both the Question and Answer of Art that make up the journey and life of the artist.
Maior Cogitatio Magiam Maiorem Facit
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Thank Brian you are right.
The nice thing is the Bizarre/spiritualism world is very ambitious and challenging journey worthy of study in all areas to understand all the connections. Who here has filmed themselves to see if that connection even plays a part in what you currently do? How do you know? Does the connection between bizarre and spiritualism, billets and slates even matter, if you are just creating the atmosphere and building from there in a creative direction using the essence as a foundation. Maybe that is why some do not move forward and take its implied meaning, history and props literally in their performances? I don’t have the exact answers because what work for one doesn’t necessarily work for another (that’s the journey and preference). You may even come under fire for your beliefs in a peer forum, push past and break new ground and experiment. Some are currently doing this and will ultimately grow and prosper from it, if they can remain grounded and nice to others I'll try to take my own advice. Gotta get some work done...
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
Quote: That's cool bro. I understand we all enjoy different things. Me, I love Billet-work and have been making a serious study of it for 35 odd years. When I first started out I was lucky to befriend Al Mann who inspired me to no end. And I love sleight-of-hand with cards. I don't pursue it much anymore but I still practice dealing seconds & bottoms. And a few other sleights that are useful with Tarot cards. (Though I don't use them; Tarot can be powerful all on it's own) Maybe it's from being a musician that I like it so much, just love doing craft with my hands. Hate card ducks though. Best to you my friend.
On Mar 26, 2015, Darkness wrote: |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
All good buddy Im sure you're solid. How cool you learned from a legend I would be proud of that.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
I'm grateful but not proud. He was helpful to me in many ways. Foremost in giving me feedback about my own routines & ideas. He shot down almost all of them. The few times he said "That's good" or "I like that" gave me a good feeling. When he shot down things it didn't make me feel bad, because he explained why. Those explanations were the real work. Don't mean to derail the thread!
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
The Green Beast is not dead! What a remarkable thread.......we have heard from icons......we disagreed but were not disagreeable.
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Brynmore14 Inner circle The Séance Chamber 1815 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 26, 2015, Allan Kardek wrote: Allan, It is interesting to see the different views expressed here. You stated that you were concerned that bizarre magic was stagnating, with an over reliance on spirit related effects (paraphrased). If this is true, then what are your feelings on mentalism? I ask because mentalism seems to boil down to maybe a dozen "abilities" that the mentalist is protraying (precognition, clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairentience, telepathy, psychokinesis, remote influence, body language/microexpressions reading, etc). I find your view interesting, because I have decided to specialise in just séance/spirit effects, in order to go from jack of all trades, to master of one. |
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