The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Child shooting (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
763 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......ath.html

"Boy, 12, stabbed baby brother to death"

If only Britain would take all knives out of circulation we could avoid these horrible tragedies.

That is a sad story you cherry picked from way back in 2001:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/13/helencarter

Still, I wonder how many children in Britain have died from knives versus children in the U.S. who died from being shot since then. I would bet that the latter absolutely dwarfs the former.


Well, I didn't actually cherry pick it since the link I found it at didn't specify a date and the date on the page was yesterdays when I saw it. Not that it matters. Despite the fact that Muslim terrorists absolutely dwarf those from any other religion you still don't mind conflating the two so why would you have a problem conflating knife vs gun killings?
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Horrible. Sadly, nothing can be done about gun violence in America.

Rubbish. It is easy to tackle; take the guns out of circulation. Civilized countries with gun control do not have these problems.


Please provide your source for this statement Tony. As seen here: http://www.infowars.com/statistics-prove......s-crime/

more guns equals less crimes.


LOL. Tony makes an international comparison, and you provide internal USA statistics. You're not even talking about the same thing.

But even looking at the infowars data, you see two things.

1. Gun ownership in the USA is increasing, and
2. Violent crime in the USA is decreasing.

They may or may not be causally related, but the article makes no argument to show that they are.

Let's replace fact 1 with another fact.

1. The number of Muslims in the USA is increasing and
2. Violent crime in the USA is decreasing.

There we have it folks, Islam is creating peace in the USA. You read it here first.

Or if you don't like that argument, let's try another.

1. Public acceptance of homosexuality is increasing and
2. Violent crime in the USA is decreasing.

And now we have the marvelous conclusion that the restriction of homosexuality causes violent crime, and we can now justify more liberal attitudes.

This argument from correlation is fun!

I don't know about where you live, but here in Alberta kids in upper-elementary school are taught about this fallacy in their math classes.


Let facts speak for themselves. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm

Maybe in Alberta they should teach that a big kid has a much less chance of getting beat up by a little kid. A stronger kid has a less chance of getting beat up by a weaker kid.

A criminal watches two people exit the bank with a lot of money. One has a fire arm the other does not. Which one do you feel the criminal will attempt to rob? Gosh you don't have to be taught to know the answer to this. It is common sense. Although in Alberta the kids do know that 1 + 1 = 2. But so do us armed Americans.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
As usual, aces, you miss the point.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, balducci wrote:
That is a sad story you cherry picked


Why is it when somebody gives an example, the opposing side who has no other response falls back on accusing the person of "cherry picking". ALL examples are "cherry picking", that's why they are examples. Perhaps they prefer someone list every single event that ever occurred.

It's a sad situation that goes far beyond the availability of a weapon, although having a deadly weapon available is certainly a factor. We should really be looking at what motivates someone to pick up a firearm, aim it at another human being, and fire? I think it's more a problem of a culture of violence rather than readily available guns. Violence is rampant in the US and we glamorize it through our media -- TV, movies, and music (particularly rap/hip hop; I don't recall Sinatra or the Beatles singing about the valor and excitement in killing police officers.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, acesover wrote:


Let facts speak for themselves. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm




While it wasn't my intention to change the topic, I will respond to the link. If it's accurate, then outside of the Twin Towers attacks, the site documents 106 American deaths on American soil to "Islamic extremists" since 1972. This works out to 0.4 deaths/year. Compared to the roughly 100 children/year killed by accidental gun discharge, I'd say it's a much smaller social issue.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
763 Posts

Profile of rockwall
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
...
the site documents 106 American deaths on American soil to "Islamic extremists" since 1972. This works out to 0.4 deaths/year. Compared to the roughly 100 children/year killed by accidental gun discharge, I'd say it's a much smaller social issue.


Well, certainly 'within' the United States but lets try not be so xenophobic, k?
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
Why dismiss the twin tower attacks? That's a pretty significant consideration.

However, thanks you so much for pointing out the effectiveness of our efforts to protect ourselves against foreign enemies since then. I hope we have continued success. As for gun deaths in the US, I stand by my opinion that it's a culture of violence that is the real issue.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
Why dismiss the twin tower attacks? That's a pretty significant consideration.

However, thanks you so much for pointing out the effectiveness of our efforts to protect ourselves against foreign enemies since then. I hope we have continued success. As for gun deaths in the US, I stand by my opinion that it's a culture of violence that is the real issue.


It's rather like school shootings. The death toll of each shooting greatly increases the average number of deaths, but they are unusual enough to really be outliers in the discussion.

It's be like counting the tolls at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and saying that the USA has killed 3200 people per year with atomic bombs since 1945. True, but not particularly meaningful.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Randwill
View Profile
Inner circle
1915 Posts

Profile of Randwill
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Horrible. Sadly, nothing can be done about gun violence in America.

Rubbish. It is easy to tackle; take the guns out of circulation. Civilized countries with gun control do not have these problems.


Never going to happen. After the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in 2012 (20 six and seven year-olds and 6 teachers murdered) the non-action of American politicians on gun control basically said that the National Rifle Association money and approval of gun-loving voters was more important. If the slaughter of first graders is the price that must be paid in order to hold onto cushy elected offices, they must have felt it was worth it.
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
I think the most reasonable thing to do is destroy all those guns that are getting up on their own accord and killing people. There is no point in trying to rehabilitate a rogue gun. These guns are taking it upon themselves to kill people without provocation. Bad guns! Bad!
Randwill
View Profile
Inner circle
1915 Posts

Profile of Randwill
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
I think the most reasonable thing to do is destroy all those guns that are getting up on their own accord and killing people. There is no point in trying to rehabilitate a rogue gun. These guns are taking it upon themselves to kill people without provocation. Bad guns! Bad!

Guns don't need to get up of their own accord and kill people, they are easily obtainable by bad people who can do the dirty work.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Guns should be locked up. When there is a good reason to use them, they should be unlocked. Where there is a culture of safety, there are fewer accidental deaths. Easy to say; obviously not so easy to accomplish.

When I had guns (for hunting, that is), they were safely locked in a case, nowhere near the ammunition. When I wanted to use them, there they were, cleaned, maintained and ready. No hardship.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Randwill wrote:

Guns don't need to get up of their own accord and kill people, they are easily obtainable by bad people who can do the dirty work.


Ohhhhhh .... so it's people who are doing the killing! I was simply following the leftist rhetoric and got confused. Forgive me.

In that case, perhaps we should be addressing the behavior of PEOPLE when looking for a solution. Which is why John's suggestions above are very reasonable. We have to encourage responsible firearms habits, as well as a less violence-oriented society.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
"Leftists?"

I love how that is often used as a perjorative for those who simply support rational firearms regulations.

The thing is, though, that those of us on the progressive left are proud of it. And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left- not so much on the extreme right, sadly.
Kabbalah
View Profile
Inner circle
1621 Posts

Profile of Kabbalah
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
"Leftists?"

The thing is, though, that those of us on the progressive left are proud of it. And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left- not so much on the extreme right, sadly.



Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

I don't know what's funnier...the fact that you are proud to be a progressive leftist or "And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left..."

Students For a Democratic Society, Weather Underground anyone?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
"Leftists?"

The thing is, though, that those of us on the progressive left are proud of it. And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left- not so much on the extreme right, sadly.



Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

I don't know what's funnier...the fact that you are proud to be a progressive leftist or "And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left..."

Students For a Democratic Society, Weather Underground anyone?


You are confusing party brand loyalty with political positions. The world is significantly more subtle that "Republican vs. Democrat".
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
I think it's hilariously laughable that he had to go back over four decades to find two examples of anti-war groups from the Vietnam era while completely forgetting the hundreds of violent right wing extremist groups that are still active and growing today.

(Magnus, of course, is correct.)
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
Hundreds? Really? And no left-leaning extremists exist, I suppose?

Rather than dwell on the extremes, why not look at where MOST of us are ... slightly left or right of center. Better to find common ground than concentrate and differences. I am pretty certain most people want a "less violence-oriented society". To label one group as wanting that more than another is, well, divisive.
Kabbalah
View Profile
Inner circle
1621 Posts

Profile of Kabbalah
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:

I think it's hilariously laughable that he had to go back over four decades to find two examples of anti-war groups from the Vietnam era while completely forgetting the hundreds of violent right wing extremist groups that are still active and growing today.

(Magnus, of course, is correct.)


Do tell of the "hundreds of violent right wing extremist groups that are still active and growing today".

And, "hilariously laughable" is redundant.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2754 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
"Leftists?"

The thing is, though, that those of us on the progressive left are proud of it. And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left- not so much on the extreme right, sadly.



Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

I don't know what's funnier...the fact that you are proud to be a progressive leftist or "And a less "violence-oriented society" has always been a hallmark goal of the left..."

Students For a Democratic Society, Weather Underground anyone?


Neither one of which were a "progressive" anything. They were both anarchist groups.

If we were to judge "leftists" by them, we would have to judge the right by the Ku Klux Klan and the John Birch Society.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Child shooting (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL