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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
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On Apr 29, 2015, Destiny wrote: I'm glad. I say "today" because I hold hope for a ever advancing justice system in the world where criminals are punished and selfless servants are rewarded. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Apr 29, 2015, acesover wrote: Was the punishment inflicted on the bankers sufficient for the misery they caused for their own profit?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
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On Apr 29, 2015, NYCTwister wrote: Well let's move on from bankers then to a more relevant example - the girl at my local supermarket who works the cigarette counter, the manager of that supermarket, the truck driver who delivers the poisonous things, the factory workers who produce them, the farmers who grow the tobacco, and the big businessman who profit the most from the trade in this hideous drug that according to the Centres for Disease Control: Quote:
is the leading cause of preventable death. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On Apr 29, 2015, Destiny wrote: But that doesn't matter because it's legal, so there's no harm, as long as you worship the status quo without question.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
As long as we are going to bring up any topic we can think of. how many abortions in the U.S. since Roe Vs Wade. lets see...about 58,000,000. Are they nice? No but they are legal and I don't hear you saying a word about them. If you can go to cigarettes I can go to abortion. Makes as much sense.
Now why not try and stick to the topic? Drug smugglers. Let me say this. They are not good people.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Agreed - they are not good people - what they do is wrong - I would prefer people didn't use illegal drugs. I don't use them myself.
I use a legal drug. I smoke cigarettes, ruining my own health, probably doing damage to other people's, and adding bits of pollution to the atmosphere with every puff I take. That sweet girl at the local supermarket who sells them to me is a merchant of death. She is bringing untold misery to countless families and is responsible for the deaths on untold numbers - if we apply the same logic to this legal drug as we apply to the illegal. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Destiny,
Are you really comparing the girl at the super market who probably makes the minimum wage to a drug smuggler who profits from securing and smuggling illegal drugs into a country for profit? A girl who pays taxes on her income. A girl who sells you over the counter medication along with meat and vegetables in order for you to exist. A girl who does not have to look over her shoulder and worry about being caught for doing something illegal, but because if she did she would makes a lot more than minimum wage doing it? Is she doing anything illegal and profiting from it while doing so or is she struggling to make ends meet? Is her only income derived from selling you cigarettes? If answering these questions honestly we can see that this is not even the apples and oranges comparison, but rather apples and snowmobiles. They are not comparable at all. So let's not insult everyone's intelligence and go there.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 29, 2015, gypsyfish wrote: Illegal drug use is a real crime, and so is drug smuggling. With your reasoning we should have the police stop going after people who drive under the influence and go after real criminals (whatever you consider them to be, obviously not drug smugglers or pushers). Are you sure about that? Let adults make their own choice even bad ones. Hmmmm. Flawed logic at its best.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
The only difference between selling cigarettes and marijuana is that cigarettes are legal, oh - and sorry - there is another difference - cigarettes are probably more harmful to your health.
And a lot of these drug smugglers are not making much more than minimum wage for it either - the Aussies might be paid pretty well but I doubt the poverty stricken Africans were paid a fortune. And of course I don't think the girl at the supermarket should be taken out to a beach in the dead of night, be tied to a post and shot dead because I choose to buy cigarettes. But nor do I believe drug smugglers should endure that fate either so that we can be assured that our friends and family who succumb to human weakness and end up with drug problems are 'victims' of the nasty evil drug dealers, and neither they nor us are responsible - the nasty people are. |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
This dialogue between Destiny and Aces brings to our attention the inability to segregate yourself from society.
Yes, the little girl is responsible for selling cigarettes. Yes, the smoker is also responsible. They are not mutually exclusive. If the girl was asked to sell Sulphuric Acid for consumption, should she do it? I bet she wouldn't if she knew what it was going to do. Whether it is legal or illegal is irrelevant. Legality in such matters is a line drawn in the sand by sometimes corrupt politicians. Its all inter-related, and we are all responsible as individuals and as a collective. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
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On Apr 30, 2015, acesover wrote: Driving under the influence of drink or drug is quite rightly illegal because of the damage you can do to other people. So far as crimes committed by people under the influence of either, I believe the penalty should be increased. I don't drink because I am an idiot when drunk (yes, even worse than when sober), full of myself (again, yes, worse), and even sometimes aggressive so it was a no brainer to give the stuff away. |
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gypsyfish Veteran user 383 Posts |
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On Apr 30, 2015, acesover wrote: Illegal drug use and drug smuggling are crimes because governments deem them crimes. If illegal drug use was legalized and users could go to a drugstore and buy drugs (clean, unadulterated, 'safe' drugs), there would be no reason to smuggle the drugs into the country, simply import them. How is my logic flawed? The government already allows citizens to choose to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol, both of which kill more people every year than all illegal drugs (in the USA anyway). Surely you're not saying that the government should criminalize cigarettes and booze, are you? I didn't say that police should not go after impaired drivers. They should. Drinkers and drug uses have the responsibility NOT to drive, operate public transportation, or work with heavy equipment (and a myriad of other things) and, if they do, they should be punished for it. Go out and run over someone while you're high, go to jail. By freeing up the police from making drug arrests and trying to interdict smuggling of drugs, they would be able to concentrate on crimes with victims, robbery, murder, assaults and so on. I drink, though not like I did when I was a kid. I haven't been drunk in maybe twenty, twenty-five years. I haven't used drugs since my college days and then only a handful of times (really, no more than five times and I was drunk then). I've never smoked, except for those times in college when I was trying pot. It makes no sense to me why someone would breathe smoke, tobacco or pot. But if they want to sit at home and get high on pot, coke, or shaken, not stirred, Martinis, that's their business. (Likewise, what happens in people's bedrooms is their business and the gumment, shouldn't criminalize that either.) |
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gypsyfish Veteran user 383 Posts |
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On Apr 29, 2015, acesover wrote: Without the drug users, there would be no drug problem. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
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On Apr 30, 2015, kambiz wrote: Before this gets any sillier lets straighten this out. the girl at the checkout counter is selling nothing. She is a check out person. Nothing more. She is definitely not a sales person. Give that part a rest. She does not actively seek out customers not does she care what they purchase. Pushers however...well figure it out. A pusher selling drugs at a school and getting kids to use drugs. Don't sit at your computer and tell me they are no violent criminals and should only be scolded when they seduce kids to try drugs and eventually get the hooked. And yes to them pot is a gateway drug to other drugs. Not that the user will automatically go to harder drugs. But the pusher has them for them and wants them to become addicted. He definitely becomes a salesman not a checkout person.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Aces
I agree a pusher selling drugs to children is evil and should be punished - just as someone selling cigarettes to a child is, and I will agree with what I assume you will say - that the punishment should be worse for crack or ice than it is for cigarettes. I don't even have a problem with the drug smugglers who were executed being punished, though I think the criminalisation of illegal drugs is probably the most ineffective use of criminal law in human history - I disagree with them being shot as murderers - because they are no more murderers than anyone involved in the sale of cigarettes. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I think the cigarette discussion is useful even if it's not a perfect (or even close) analogy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I thank God I don't smoke or take illegal drugs. However I do indulge in wine and a few Manhattans on a weekly basis. As a kid cigarettes made me dizzy. Again thank God for small favors.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
When is Cannabis going to shake its "drug" image? Cigarettes don't have that stigma! I smoke weed, so I'm a "druggie"? Puh-LEEZE. Druggies do cocaine, heroin, Molly, LSD. All dangerous, if not used responsibly. I do not condone the abuse of drugs.
But Cannabis is still in the early stages of being accepted. Research has shown its cancer curing properties. Go to YouTube and search, Run From The Cure. Ya may as well be educated about it. It truly is an eye opener. I've actually seen it cure a malignant melanoma! My best friend had it! Long story. Abuse of drugs does NOT equal USE of Cannabis! You cannot "abuse" Cannabis. You just don't get any higher. No one has ever overdosed on it. No one I know who uses it, finds he can't live WITHOUT it! Coffee drinkers! Can you say that? Go a day without your cuppa Joe. Go ahead! Ha! Drugs? And coffee could be dangerous. Brew up three pounds and boil it down to a syrup and chug it! You'll be spewing like a RainBird lawn sprinkler! Cannabis needs a new image. Real soon. Doug |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Hey Doug-
It's got a fine image in the more enlightened parts of the country. (Like where I live ) And the legal stuff is actually excellent quality. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Now which one of you science-deniers is going to refute this study?
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/......thc-mood Also, not always quite as harmless as some want you to believe. http://starcasm.net/archives/310820 Of those pot advocates here, if you had to choose between two evils, would you prefer your 12 year old child to experiment with cigarettes or pot? You're cheating and taking the easy way out if you say either would be equally bad. On the other hand, if you think pot is so wonderful that you choose to say that having your child smoke pot would actually be a good thing, that's not cheating. |
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