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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
An open fly is not part of a performance and not detrimental to the act if seen. It may even be good misdirection. An open fly has nothing to do with magic and methods so that is a stupid comparison. Also magicians are looking for flashes especially self-righteous ones, laymen are not.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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javamantis New user West Virginia 13 Posts |
These guys might beg to differ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz4FyjZ4f38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udi7--fnoVE http://www.aaronfishermagic.com/derek-hu......-talent/ |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
You are just making stuff up now and trying to twist things around for the sake of arguing. As I stated already "A fly being opened is not an act of skill or performance usually. Maybe it was done on purpose for a card production or maybe it was just a really hot day." In the original case the fly being open was not part of the trick or performance and had nothing to do with it. In those cases it is part of the trick. So that is irrelevant and entirely different. In the original case it was just open and had nothing to do with the routine.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
"No matter how clever and experienced you are, your magically jaded eyes do not see what the layperson sees." Maximum Entertainment by Ken Weber. Which also applies to magicians watching other magicians. As I said they look for flashes and other stuff because they know when and where to look. So their advice could be irrelevant, unless it is very blatant and obvious. But they are not the audience.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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David Fillary Special user 662 Posts |
Guys, if you want real feedback, perform in front of teenagers! I test all my material in front of my students (I'm a school teacher) and they let me know IMMEDIATELY if I flash! Fortunately they are not too "polite" to let me know!
At a gig (there, I've done some paid performances, is my opinion valid now?), a magician I just met pointed out that my copper/silver routine flashed to his friends and they noticed it. So I changed my structure for the future. I had never met him before. I thanked him very much as I was unaware of that angle before. His friends would not have told me if he hadn't, so I would have been blissfully unaware for many years. Politeness often gets in the way of progress! PLEASE if you ever see me perform, let me know afterwards if I flash! I don't want to be among the other "professionals" that laypeople describe to me - I've had one spectator describe a TT writer (Swami) exactly because he had SEEN a magician using it. That performer is probably still "educating" his audiences on it... Also, I'm a teacher. It is in my blood to help others. People here seem to imply that it is an ego problem that makes me want to help others. I'm currently teaching my left hand to do coin magic so I can better teach coin magic in the future. I love teaching as much as I love performing and seeing others improve is just as rewarding as my own improvement. Tarbell describes at the start of his course in volume one the enjoyment he feels of hearing the improvements other magicians. Did he write that book just to boost his ego? |
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JoshRyan Regular user Kitchener, ON, Canda 123 Posts |
I welcome feedback from anyone, any type of feedback. It can only make my performance better.
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 2, 2015, FiveTheMagician wrote: I applaud this attitude. The surprising thing to me is it doesn't seem to be universally shared. Here I was thinking that everyone was seeking perfection, even at the cost of some unwarranted criticism, but I was wrong. There are performers who don't want to hear it and will get upset if something is said. Even if it's discourteous, you are a pro. Smile, nod, get on with your life. No blood spilled. And the one time, the very rare one time, when you discover something you hadn't thought of? Bonus! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Again the subject is how to OFFER the advice not how to TAKE it.
But if you don't work regularly it is possible you don't understand the difference. Just because it is rude to do it has nothing to do with anyone seeking perfection. How are the two connected? No it is two different things. One is guys not being able to keep their mouths shut because of THEIR EGO and some misguided crap about thinking it is about helping and the other is how a pro handles it when this happens. I have said time and again you be polite when someone does it. But perhaps all that energy is best put to your own seeking of perfection. Make your own show perfect before trying to tell others why theirs is not in your eyes. Nobody else was put on this earth to live up to your expectations.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Hey Danny. I read all four pages and I absolutely agree that the professional does not offer unsolicited advice.
Sadly, your comment about karaoke singers not giving advice to professionals is not quite right. Amateur musicians love telling pros that they caught that little slip up but (wink wink) the general audience didn't. Somehow it's like inviting yourself into an exclusive club. Regardless, follow Danny's advice. When you are in the audience, be a spectator. When you are asked for a review, give it constructively.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts |
What do you tell a magician with two black eyes?
Nothing, the magician he gave pointers to already told him twice!
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 14, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Yea the Karaoke thing. Yep dead wrong I was LOL. NO kidding I thought that after I wrote it you are right.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 14, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: Well, you are offering your opinion on this topic, and I am offering mine. Which of us is the egomaniac in this situation? I don't think either of us are - we are just giving our opinions on a subject which interests us. I didn't solicit your opinion; you didn't solicit mine. But here we are. And even if I disagreed with you strongly, I wouldn't want to stop you from speaking your mind or tell you you shouldn't. I might not think much of your opinion or you. You might think me a pompous ass. Who cares? We care about magic. And maybe that's where the disagreement arises -- I'm thinking any criticism is given in an honest, respectful manner and with the idea of helping. But I think you are talking about a kind of insulting putdown sort of one-upsmanship? Have I got that right? If so, we don't much disagree at all. |
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bigfoot Special user 502 Posts |
I think it is bad taste to offer advice without being asked. Magic is still a form of ART and all art is a large part of self discovery. Would you offer unsolicited advice to Michaelangelo, Picasso, Bach, or Vivaldi. One day this person will realize the error of there magic and fix it. It will be a lesson they had the pleasure of learning.
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1337 Posts |
Browsing around some magic shops, I found something that solves this whole issue...
http://themagicapple.com/stuff-on-sale/m......thinking
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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bigfoot Special user 502 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 17, 2015, imgic wrote: The idea is funny but would you really use them? Say hey I see your a magician let me show you a trick, you picked the only card in this packet that says "you suck!" Please cut the four cards into four equal piles....I'll turn over the cards you cut to....you flashed, you suck, your pass isn't invisible, and your fly is open. What an amazing coincidence that you cut to those four cards. |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
The idea is not funny (to me).
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bigfoot Special user 502 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, MeetMagicMike wrote: I am sorry I guess I should have added that it was meant as sarcasm. I often forget that tone does not translate well in text. |
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
Hope he is a member of the Café and see's this post? lol
Frakson, had a rule. They must ask you for advice 3 times..The first time say it was good, the second time, say its ok..the third time tell them what you feel lol |
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