The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » OK, how to sort out the mentor puzzle? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

RookieMage
View Profile
New user
Rookies only have
58 Posts

Profile of RookieMage
So in my imaginary Perfect World (where everything is wonderful, free and happy :o)
and where I spend most of my time, it seems like the coolest mentor you could have in magic would be one of today's Great Magic Talents. But in the real world, it seems that if you want to be coached by some great magic talent, it will cost you $50-100 per hour for Skype-based instruction... With that said, how do you go about getting the one-on-one help to study magic from a veteran mage without being quite so much out of pocket? My motivation is straight forward, I think that I could increase the speed with which I learn with some help from a vet. I have heard so many magicians talk about the huge benefits to be had from one-on-one instruction that I really want to try it out. Thoughts?
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8642 Posts

Profile of funsway
In golf a good "teaching pro" is not always a great "playing pro." The discipline is different even if both have high technical skill.

A good magic mentor is not one who you can emulate, but one who will assist you in bettering yourself. The "speed" at which you learn may be the wrong focus.

My best mentors would not allow me to move to a new effect until I demonstrated complete competence in the earlier one. This is not always a fast process. Non easy -- it takes work.

By analogy, in a public school you "learn" a set curriculum on long schedule measured against a passing grade compared with others.

In proper home school with a morse mentored environment you can learn at your own pace, but the score on any test should be 100%. You repeat the material until you know every answer and concept.

You may be seeking a coach, or director, or a training-buddy. A Mentor should not be a "one-on-one instructor," but a "you-on-you" governor on your "speed."

How do you find such a person? "Build it and they will come!"

.......

Having said that, your awareness that buying an endless collection of dvd's or books or package effects is good. Quantity of possible effects is never the answer.

Ask what qualities you now have and what qualities you crave to acquire. If a Mentor would contact you, how would you demonstrate you are ready for their help and willing to follow their advice?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Harry Lorayne
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York City
8447 Posts

Profile of Harry Lorayne
I've written a few books JUST FOR YOU!!!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Kabbalah
View Profile
Inner circle
1621 Posts

Profile of Kabbalah
Quote:
On May 17, 2015, RookieMage wrote:

With that said, how do you go about getting the one-on-one help to study magic from a veteran mage without being quite so much out of pocket?


Easy answer, you don't.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
BeThePlunk
View Profile
Special user
West of Boston, East of Eden
895 Posts

Profile of BeThePlunk
I agree with Funsway, those who are at the top of any skill are generally not good teachers. In fact, I'll speculate that they are so focused on perfecting their own work that their ability to connect with a student is limited. If you cn get their time, they have a right to charge for the lifetime of work they've devoted to getting were they are. If there's a SAM or IBM club in your area, why not look around for someone who combines solid skill with the gift of teaching?
DWRackley
View Profile
Inner circle
Chattanooga, TN
1909 Posts

Profile of DWRackley
I didn’t even recognise that I had a mentor until after (that part of) my training was over. At 17, my first “for pay” job was working in a magic shop for a guy who had been selling magic for half a century. He was my boss, and he was a real pro: a holdover from the days of peddler’s wagons and traveling medicine shows. I remember one day I’d dropped the billiard balls one time too many, and he threatened to fire me if I had even one more drop. (Yeah, he was also a grouch!) Smile

But over that period of time I learned as much about people and showmanship as I did about magic and gimmicks, and I absolutely would not be doing this today if he hadn’t taken the time to coach me.

I’m not sure just how much you can learn from a “paid” relationship (and a relationship is really what you want). Seems to me a little like the difference between a wife and a hooker. And I’m positive there are some aspects that you could NEVER learn over Skype.

Best advice (IMO) is to do your best, “bump into” as many professionals as you can, and keep your eyes open.

To bring back a cliché from 50 years ago, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.”
...what if I could read your mind?

Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist

Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com

also on FaceBook
RookieMage
View Profile
New user
Rookies only have
58 Posts

Profile of RookieMage
Hey Kaballah, your feedback kind of gave me a God smack; your answer is obvious when I think about it and caused me to do a big re-think. Paying for training from an actual veteran magician with strong skills is only logical, and if the market will bear the price of $50-100/hour, who am I to expect the same for less? My desire to accelerate my learning process has to be balanced against a variety of things, my time for training, my energy and my budget as well. And like many new students, I think I want to be a veteran magician with 20 years of experience under my belt on day 1 or 2 :o)

BeThePlunk, your point is well taken and is simply the truth; "If you can get their time, they have a right to charge for the lifetime of work they've devoted to getting were they are." Like most of us, I have a job, and doing my job (or training others to do my job) would be something that would call for compensation, period.

Funsway, you must be a deep thinker, cause your input caused me to do some deep thinking also. Sometimes I feel like I am so new that I don't even know what questions to ask, does that make sense? I have a deep desire to pursue magic, to perform and become a skilled artist, but I think you are correct when you say that "speed" of learning should not be the focus.
RookieMage
View Profile
New user
Rookies only have
58 Posts

Profile of RookieMage
DWRackley, how cool it must have been to work in a magic store; was it all-time fun, always hard work, or some combination of both? Just the atmosphere of magic stores is amazing to me, the sense of fun/excitement/great secrets is as strong to me today as when I was a kid. As for the need for a relationship, I'm picking up what you are laying down. Every time I have heard about magical training experiences, I hear about the teacher and student having a strong relationship, and I suspect that many of those relationships began by happenstance/luck. Being in the right place and time, even taking your first job at age 17 in a magic shop, calls for a touch of serendipity, right? I envy your start, but more importantly, I appreciate your helpful words:

"do your best, “bump into” as many professionals as you can, and keep your eyes open. To bring back a cliché from 50 years ago, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.”
DWRackley
View Profile
Inner circle
Chattanooga, TN
1909 Posts

Profile of DWRackley
Definitely a combo. Training my hands to do things that no-one would ever see was just tedious and weird. I remember working for hours on the perfect Elmsley, but once I learned to “pinch off” any number of cards it opened up a whole new set of effects. There was also the normal routine of any retail store: cleaning and polishing, sweeping the floor and straightening the stock.

It was also a blast. I got to play with all the cool toys! It was billed as the Southeast’s Largest Magic Shop, and it probably came close. Customers included some local legends, and every one of them had his own idiosyncrasies and “special needs”. And they ALL had some kind of advice for “the kid”.

For you, I’d say go to any conventions you can get to. Once your face starts being recognized, somebody will warm up to you. Yes, it is largely serendipitous, but (I think it was) Sam Goldwin said, “The harder I work, the luckier I get”.

Best of Luck!
...what if I could read your mind?

Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist

Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com

also on FaceBook
RookieMage
View Profile
New user
Rookies only have
58 Posts

Profile of RookieMage
Thanks again DWRackley, your first job still sounds like it was actual work but had some very nice benefits to go along with it, very cool indeed. I plan to attend the local Penguin Live Expo thingy in Seattle soon, and would love to attend other conventions as I discover them. Do you have a resource that lists magic conventions with their dates/locations? Sure would be nice to see how many are near my home state of Washington, although I am always up for a Vegas trip with the wife...
latentimage
View Profile
Elite user
No More Room In Hell..
445 Posts

Profile of latentimage
Quote:
On May 17, 2015, RookieMage wrote:
But in the real world, it seems that if you want to be coached by some great magic talent, it will cost you $50-100 per hour for Skype-based instruction... With that said, how do you go about getting the one-on-one help to study magic from a veteran mage without being quite so much out of pocket?


Firstly, if you meet a professional magician who you would like to get some help from, do not refer to them or yourself as a "mage". I know what you are getting at here with roleplaying references, but there are no similarities between a magician and a mage from a game, outside of some of the same letters in the name. We do not cast spells, etc. Some magicians spend their entire lives and careers trying to get magic away from such stereotypes, and elevated back to the respected art form that it once was. I know I have. I'm positive that you don't mean anything negative by it, but I just wanted to point it out since you seem like you might be interested in committing and getting to the pro level yourself. You are asking the right question.

Personally, I don't have a whole lot of money at all, but I willingly invest all I can into personal magic instruction from a professional performer who I admire and respect. Just a few hours spent with the right person will be more valuable than trick or prop you will ever buy. I suggest you find someone who specializes in whatever area of magic you want to be the most involved in; stage, close-up, etc. If you can find any great magic talent to coach you for 50-100 per hour, I would take that offer in a second. Jeff McBride, for example, charges around 250.00 an hour a Skype session I believe. More in person. You can go to his site to double check on the prices. Eugene Burger is also available, as per the information on his website, and at a very reasonable rate. Check out www.magicbeard.com You aren't going to get any better than those two!

If you are just looking for an average, working magician who would be willing to help, the best move would be to go to the magic shop and ask the guy behind the counter. You can also join S.A.M. and I.B.M. and attend meetings. There, you can watch lectures, and maybe even approach one of the performers afterwards to ask about lessons. There will be a ton of other performers in the club who can help you out too, but there's a good chance that you may already be above most of them in skill level. This isn't always true, but in my experience that's quite often the way it is. Anyhow, you would be best served by seeking out the best of the best. If I wanted to learn how to become a great actor, I wouldn't seek out the people working at 7-11 who never made it. I would seek out the people who are, right now, at a point in their careers that I also want to achieve.
"Come to the edge," he said, They Said "We Are Afraid," "Come to the edge," he said, They Came, He Pushed Them...And They Flew. -Apollinaire

"If there be a skeptical star, I was born under it. Yet I have lived all my days in complete astonishment." -W. MacNeile Dixon
RookieMage
View Profile
New user
Rookies only have
58 Posts

Profile of RookieMage
Hey Allen Michael, thanks for your input, I find the help and advice that I have received here invaluable. And you are correct, I mean no disrespect to the art of magic or magicians by using the word mage; it is simply a synonym for magician, although I have learned that the term "mage" is Not Well Received here in the Café. I think I also grasp what you said about trying to "get magic away from such stereotypes, and elevated back to the respected art form that it once was."

My goal is not to cast spells and work with supernatural powers, my goal is to grow my skill as a performer of magic and be a positive example of this respected art form. With the ultimate goal of making folks feel astonishment and wonder...

In a short time here, I have received so much good direction that I will be kept busy for a long time with what I have so far. Please keep the helpful advice coming, and know that it is much appreciated!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » OK, how to sort out the mentor puzzle? (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.21 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL