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the magic mercat New user Under the sea. 21 Posts |
Nope I try as hard as I can not to.
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terryisaacs Regular user 110 Posts |
I definitely try to figure it out but I enjoy that part of magic. I love the how of magic. I love watching magic just to see the art buy I also love seeing something that folks me. Especially if its performed well.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
Generally I know how most tricks are done but what I focus on is the performance and the audience interaction those are what I'm interested in. I know enough effects, I'm looking for presentations and insights on audience management.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Both. Even before I was a magician I always was drawn to 'knowing' - thinking, discussing etc. I have a problem solving gene, I guess But at the same time I also revel in the artistry and performance and sheer wonder. Best of both worlds?
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Okay, so here's a question... A loaded question.
Is there (could there be) a relationship between somebody's mindset about "figuring out the puzzle" or "solving the problem" or "analyzing the solution" and his/her style of presentation? Do people who always try to "figure it out" tend to present magic as a puzzle instead of as something impossible? I know there's no cut-and-dried answer to this (probably as many answers as there are performers), but I'm just curious.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Revelations in neuroscience indicate that this may be true. We see what we intend to see and project that onto othe rpeople and the universe.
Even our memory is continuously compensated for whta we are convinced we did rather thna what actually happened. This "projection" may also be influenced by one's capacity for imagination, with evidence that vicarious experience via video games and TV junk is destroying that. So, 30 years ago I would say that a good performer could adapt how they present to "knowing your audience." Today, many can only provide/offer from a limited number of options provided by someone else. They "present magic" for neither reason you offer, only by what seems popular from sale's hype.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Well, like I said in another thread, magic is a hobby for many people: a fun, spare-time avocation that can take many forms. And there's nothing wrong with that. What I find interesting is that (apparently) anyone who learns one trick, or buys one trick and follows the instructions, or attends one meeting, feels he can call himself a magician. I have friends who continually kvetch about "magicians this" or "magicians that," and I find myself reminding them that their comments are mostly referring to a certain segment of the hobbyists, not to working pros.
I've known people who seriously felt that the whole point of watching magic was to figure it out and then tell you (and any others present) how you did it. For them, it was a puzzle to be solved and a way to show how smart they were. What did I do? I just avoided any situations with them where the subject of magic would come up. Easy.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Didn't Mac King say that at its basest level magic was about saying, 'I fooled you b*tch!'
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
He was probably right, but I have to believe that anyone who has only been exposed to this type of magic doesn't have any point of reference and therefore doesn't know any different.
I am continually amused by non-professional theatre companies (mostly community theatres and high schools) where the staff and volunteers have no training in theater and therefore think that all live theater is a last-minute, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants thing. I've had people say to me, 'I've been doing this for thirty years and it's always the same last-minute thing. That's how theater is." And I just want to say, "Well, I've been in and around professional theater for over thirty years myself, and I can assure you, this is NOT the way it is." Of course, that discussion always goes nowhere. Point being, people tend to go with what they see and are used to, unless something happens to make them see something different.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
That's sounds true enough for most things in life. It's hard to imagine that which we've not even glimpsed before. That's why breaking new ground and imagining the unimaginable is such a mental feat.
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ZachDavenport Inner circle Last time I posted I had one less than 1196 Posts |
Try to imagine a new color.
Reality is a real killjoy.
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prestidigitation New user 54 Posts |
Trying to guess the secret of a trick is half the fun of magic. That's what draws us in, isn't it? The curiousity of a logic puzzle. I don't know how to shut myself off from it like some here say they do.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I would modify "guess the secret" to "figure out how to achieve the desired result." The method one hits on may not be the same as the original at all.
That is a joy of creativity. Inspiration can lead to innovation. It might be a poor video presentation or story. The "trick" isn't always the seed -- it may be audience reaction. One of the joys of reading Dick Osland's new book is seeing how tricks that fool nobody create excitement and astonishment.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 1, 2015, prestidigitation wrote: No. It is not half the fun, it is not any of the fun.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
I dunno... if my interest were in figuring things out, I'd go for detective stories or puzzles, where I wouldn't have to sit through someone going off on tangents and taking up my time by trying to come across like an entertainer. I'd go right for the jugular.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Jesseb New user 34 Posts |
I think really good magic usurps any 'working out mode' because you have seen something occurring where all possible doubts have been allayed and yet the impossible occurs. This delicious cognitive dissonance causes your mind to have to jump to "it must be magic because there literally is no other explanation". I saw Guy Hollingworth perform his new stand up effect at the end of last year and it made me fall in love with magic again. I realised that as magicians we hardly see anything which is magical. But when he performed his routine I just had no idea, not even an inkling at all - thoughts of method became retrospective because I was just suspended in the luminous-green-jello space of astonishment. It was beautiful. When your mind has no where else to turn, as is automatically the case with good magic, the working out phase just doesn't happen - because it can't.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Good thoughts, Jessup -- but you might read up on the shift from "cognitive dissonance" as a valid theory to other discoveries/theories of neuroscience.
Right conclusion but wrong causality. Just terminology, I know, but effective communication might be enhanced if ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Upon reflection I realized that I generally don't want to 'figure it out' if I care about knowing the method at all. I either just 'want to know how it was done' or I don't care.
This happens in other fields by the way. You can hear a neat guitar riff and your first thought is: How did he do that? Guitarists all the time try to figure out how it was done. That's how they become better and more knowledgeable musicians.
Brad Burt
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4385 Posts |
I find that I am focusing more on how they entertained the audience and the little things they do. I could watch people like Pop Haydn all day long, just focusing on how he works the room.
KJ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
That is indeed where the "magic" is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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