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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts 
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On May 31, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: You mention that teachers are more accountable today. How so? Also to whom and again how are they accountable? Also what action is taken if they are found deficient in their duties and how are they found out? I am not even going to disagree with you about their accountability. I am just looking for proof of that statement. Please explain to whom and how are they accountable along with punishment for not being up to par.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On May 31, 2015, acesover wrote: Got a serious question, or on a witch hunt? If you're looking for legal repercussions, each jurisdiction will be different. Check local laws, contracts, codes of professional conduct, etc. The context to which I was referring was not legal. In the thread, I deal specifically with the issue of student grades. Parents have an increasing involvement and right to access teacher mark books. It is increasingly common for teachers to be required to explicitly state the criteria by which students are evaluated. In my jurisdiction, it is considered a professional responsibility to assess only on the basis of the stated outcomes in the approved Program of Study. (What used to be called "curriculum". Long story.) There's more, but this is a start.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts
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 This saying has always been my motivation.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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It's funny how the discussion turned toward the parents, when the first thing I noticed in the cartoon was that in the first frame the child was ashamed, and in the second frame the child was proud.
I don't deal with children in my professional life. But I don't exactly deal with adults, either. I deal with people in that cloudy and spongy area between being on your own and being responsible on your own. Many, many years ago, as a very young teacher (I was around 30), I caught two students who had plagiarized. Each had a couple of identical paragraphs in their term papers. I failed them both. Then the drama began. After phone calls with both students and four parents, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I agreed to pass both of them with a D- and a report filed to the dean suggesting that any second violation should (according to the parents and myself) result in expulsion from university. I still wonder whether I did the right thing. Was I cow-towing the parents? Was I, at 30, too soft? After all, I was only 30, and the parents--strong, upstanding citizens--were only protecting their children from the wet-behind-the-ears 30-year-old professor. My point is that attitudes have indeed been changing since I started teaching college in 1990. The rise of the notion that a college education is simply an economic advantage--and thus represents a certificate to increased pay rather than accomplished knowledge--has nearly completely taken over my workplace. When I look at the cartoon again, I see what y'all see: that the parents are attacking the child in the first frame, and the teacher in the second. But it still interests me that the first thing I saw was a child who has no pride in the second frame. How can we teach our children to be proud about themselves and their own accomplishments, sans parents? |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts
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So when you were 30 you created two politicians?
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts
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Many years ago, my kid had a confrontation with a fellow student on a stairwell. A few days later, she reported the following conversation between her and a science teacher;
DAUGHTER: I don't understand this. TEACHER: (To student on right) Do YOU understand it? (Student nods) TEACHER: (To student on left) Do YOU understand it? (Student nods) TEACHER: (To my daughter) It must be you. I went into the school, mentioned the stairwell incident and brought up the teacher conversation. Then I said; "Well, you obviously aren't meeting my daughter's needs in regards to safety and now I find you can't meet her needs educationally. I'm pulling my daughter out of this school." And I did. The State tutored her for awhile in the local library, then found another school for her. She was miserable there too, but she got educated.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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On Jun 1, 2015, Salguod Nairb wrote: Only two? Oh goodness. I might deserve the gas chamber for what I did when I was 30. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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When we were kids we got punished, not only In school but also by the legal system. About the same time they stopped corporal punishment they also stopped prosecuting kids for crimes. I know kids went wild after that, committing 100s of criminal offences and all they would get was a warning from the police at the police station. When we were kids if one committed crimes we would be taken to court and after about three times one would be sent to prison, called approve school or borstal for between 1 to 3 years, depending on how one behaved there.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts
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We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Jun 1, 2015, tommy wrote: There is that annoying fact that violent crime has continued to decline across the Western world for the past 3 decades 
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1777 Posts
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There is a Michael Close video I once saw, where he pretends to read a teenage volunteer's mind. He concentrates, and says something like: "I can see into your future ..."
Then he appears to come to a realization, and asks the kid a question: "Does the phrase 'Would you like fries with that?' mean anything to you?" Always wished I had the chutzpah to do that! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Because kids are not prosecuted anymore there are no convictions and so crime rates look lower.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1777 Posts
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On a more serious note: Like Tommy, we had corporal punishment throughout my entire schooling. In high school, I became somewhat of a rebel, where -- as crazy as it sounds -- getting caned in class by my teachers was a status symbol. "Six of the best" from the school principal in his office (for more serious transgressions) was looked on as even more awe-inspiring.
Why am I telling you all this? Because in those days teachers had to be respected, and their word was law -- whether we thought they were wrong or right. There was no "back-chat" or arguing. If you didn't do a homework assignment you were punished. And parents certainly had no influence over the school to change their children's grades. Suffice it to say, I hated school. But in retrospect, I am grateful for the strict conditions, because in the end I got a very decent education. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Most crimes are committed by children, up to age of 18, I think. They can be prosecuted here but they are not normally, as it is a waste time, since there are no "prisons" to send them too anymore. They can send them into care homes but they are joke. Kids are not silly and some are fully aware that they get away with it. When I have tried to put kids on the straight and narrow, I have had them say to me, “What can the police do, they can’t do **** all to us. Not all kids commit crimes of course.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Jun 1, 2015, arthur stead wrote: True story. A colleague once exasperatedly chided his high school physics class with a crack about learning to work harder or flipping burgers for a living. After class, a young man politely informed him that since emigrating from Columbia his father, an engineer, was unable to find work in his field and was working at McDonald's to support the family. The young man politely and firmly requested that the teacher refrain from making similar comments in the future. Sometimes we forget our privilege and say cruel things.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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lunatik Inner circle 3225 Posts
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I wouldn't have backtracked on what I said, I would have reiterated that his father did work hard to become an engineer and that hopefully he would be able to land a nice job soon. I would have then commended the father doing whatever it took to support his family.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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On May 31, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Not a witch hunt. You stated that teachers are more accountable today. In order to be more accountable they must be more accountable to someone and under some sort of guide lines. My question was to understand what those guide lines are and how they are enforced and who enforces them and what is done if such guide lines are not met. I would even like to know what those guide lines are that supposedly watched. Your answer seems to be that parents can see grade books. I am asking about the teacher's ability to teach and the effort they put into teaching not what the student scores on a test. Heck the teacher can say, go home and read and study chapter 9. Then give a test on chapter 9. The student may or may not pass the test. The grade then goes in the grade book That in no way shows that the teacher is a good teacher or not. The teacher can say the criteria is based on test scores.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Jun 1, 2015, acesover wrote: That is not my answer to the global question of accountability. As I mentioned, that is not the issue I raised. As to teacher accountability, I recommend you read your local laws to find out. Each jurisdiction will be different.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Jun 1, 2015, lunatik wrote: Couldn't disagree more. He said a rude and arrogant thing that was hurtful to a student. He was right to apologize.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Spare the rod and spoil the child. That is just what we have today really. We have a load of spoiled brats on drugs. Millions are now in homeless hostels, having been thrown out by their parents at the end of their tether. 10% end up in jail by the time they are adults and so all these socialist teachers need a good thrashing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Posted: Jun 1, 2015 02:29 am 
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