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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » APPearing Soon... » » Intellectual Property and APP production (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Slim King
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Eternal Order
Orlando
17399 Posts

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It seems that many App makers are taking the Intellectual Property of others and using them in their Apps without getting permission and often times violating the inventors rights. It's a serious ethical question. It's like taking a Popular Movie made in the 70's and putting it out on BLUE RAY and saying .... "Well, no one ever put it out on BLUE RAY before so it's now mine to sell"...... It's piracy.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
insight
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Inner circle
3095 Posts

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This is a big issue and one that must be dealt with. Too many in our industry disregard the value of intellectual property.

Regards,
Mike
pegasus
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England
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It's Blu-Ray
Magic Patrick
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1576 Posts

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Legal versus ethical. That is and always has been the deal with magic tricks props and now apps. If you do not have the original props or books or CDs then you are part of he problem. Knockoffs and other loosely developed tricks are not illegal but rather unethical. If that dic hat David Copperfield ever felt something was illegal he would sue the person. One example is cardiographic. This was taken from Tarbell. Then recently a version called pocket riser came out and to me it was wrong as it was very close to Martin Lewis' version. Not exactly but clos enough. I have all original products and continue to use tarbell's version of the rising card instead of cardiographic. The magic Café has become the ethics police once again. Makes me sick and will not change a *** thing as those that have no ethics will do what they want. If there were legal issues to be taken then let's shut the f up and doing something about it. I have heard that Greg Rostand has stolen others ideas and I have heard that others have too. But it is amazing that no one has been sued. I wonder why? It is because most of the ideas are either public domain or not illegal in nature.

Patrick
Max Krause
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V.I.P.
I should be creating magic with my
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As long as people are willing to support those who copy other's ideas there will always be those there to copy them for their own financial gain.
Magic Patrick
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Minnesota
1576 Posts

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Quote:
On Oct 11, 2015, Max Krause wrote:
As long as people are willing to support those who copy other's ideas there will always be those there to copy them for their own financial gain.


Well said!!
James Mattox
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There should be a sticky thread here that lists copycat apps and Steve should not allow them to promote their stuff here. 21st century prediction and augure for starters.
Magic Patrick
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I love 21st century prediction. Do you care to state how they stole their idea? I did not get a chance to by your app that you sold to copperfuc but I have been told that these are not the same. I will be buying augure this week. Please do tell me how this is something illegal. I would like to hear this.
James Mattox
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Illegal? Well as you said earlier this is more of an ethical issue. 21st Century prediction and augure both do what my app did (not sure if you had it?), both creators were previously aware of my work (and what Slim has been doing for years before me), so wouldn't that make it a knockoff? Mine may be no longer available to the public but it still exists and it was well known here on the forum. Is it ok to copy someone else's work just because it's not on the public market? That's the rationalization some people here used when 21st century prediction was released and I called them out on it. I remember one person saying "finally a replacement for eWiz) So people knew it was a knockoff and didn't care. That app by the way, was created by someone who owned my app was "disgruntled" to say the least when I pulled it from the market. And then when I ask where he got the idea from he says a book. I mean come on, a book? At the very very very least, these two creators should have asked permission from Slim and myself asking to built something based on idea they got from us, and then gave us credit someone in the app. Slim I'm sure would not have given his blessing but still, it's my personal belief that doing so is the ethical way to act. Use someone else's idea = get permission (or at least ask) and then give credit when credit is due.
Magic Patrick
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They fill the void created because they had an app that was ripped away from them because they did not have mega bucks like coopafield. If it is not the same then it is not a knock off. If they are the same then coopafield would sue. I know as he did this with 13 and Rob Lake (who bought his version legitimantly). some would say that it is not ethical to sell a product then take it away to the highest bidder. I think that it is funny that you are preaching ethics here. I mean sankey didn't take airtight off the market because coopafield wanted sole performance rights. I will continue to use 21st century and buy augure without any regret or feelings if my moral compass being in question. Some say knock offs, that is only if it is exactly the same. I mean some could say that modern art is a rip off of the zigzag. Similar effects but look much differently. I didn't know slim was in on your app. I have no respect for anything he says here either.
James Mattox
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Slim was not involved in my app. His material was around long before mine. You said earlier that if you do not have the original you are part of the problem. Did you buy Slims effect?
Magic Patrick
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I am not using slims trick. I am using Keyl Magic's trick. I did not know slim had an app. When I buy a prop or a trick or in this case an app from a legitimate vendor like Dream Illusions, penguin magic or iTunes then I consider all the ts are crossed and the is are dotted. I own a konundrum kube from jack Murray, whether he used another's idea is not of concern as he developed his version of jam which in my opinion is better. Every trick is built upon some common idea. Snap illusions was okay making illusions but they were not very deceptive. Unless you can prove that your idea was stolen then you should stop accusing people of copying your app. Similarities are on all apps. They range from loosely as using a phone to sending an email. Please share with us exactly how your app is copied.
James Mattox
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It's the same effect as mine. It's not like he copied the code or the images but the effect from start to finish is the same concept. It's not an original idea. If I decided I liked iForce, would it be ok to make my own version that does essentially the same thing but just change the name?

I agree that legitimate magic shops should do their research and cross their Ts. And yes many tricks are built upon common ideas and I am ok with that. I can name many effects that are based on something else yet offer some sort of improvement. But in all the cases I can think of, the creator of the new effects asks for permission and/or credits the creator of the older/original effect.
Manny7311
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Actually, it's only illegal if you steal a routine. Yes although unethical, if you make a trick your own and have your own method. You cannot get sued. It's the same for apps, as long as design and UI interface isn't directly copied or logo/name. Then it's not a problem. Think about all the "Instagram" like apps out there. No one is getting sued because it's too hard to patent something like that. Like I said, when it comes to magic, professional magicians like DC or Penn and Teller have had their routines patented. So if you use the same routine for commercial purposes you can get sued.
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