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David Klass Inner circle Beckenham, England 1203 Posts |
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On Jun 30, 2015, Jheff wrote: Thank you Jheff. Yes of course it makes sense to have even piles at the end. I would just like to see how this is addressed in performance, whilst still looking a fair and free choice. |
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Jheff V.I.P. 402 Posts |
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On Jun 30, 2015, David Klass wrote: It's actually quite simple to address in performance. When the cards are more than half dealt (in a twenty card stack, I usually let about twelve to fourteen cards be dealt), simply stop and let the participant know. For example, if I stop and have seven cards in my hand, I say "Remember, there are ten of each (or whatever the amount is) and I have seven, which means I should get three more cards and the rest are in your pile." At this point, depending on the amount, the rest are either dealt or I just have them pick out the cards to give me one at a time. The important point is to wait until more than half the cards are dealt so that the remainder can be separated however the participant likes. The participant still has a fair and free choice. -- Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind PARIMENTAL, a 200 page exploration of a classic Martin Gardner principle, is now available!!
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts |
At first, I was put off by having to count the cards and having to tell the spectator, "My pile needs three more cards and your pile needs one" since the piles have to be equal with Jon Armstrong's handling. But, the more I think about it, it's perfectly fine to ask the spectator to try and make the piles even and helping them, if necessary.
But, there are other ways to do OOTW that don't require any counting and the piles don't have to be even. Here's one way to do it without counting that's perfectly suited for Derren Brown's "Undertaker" effect that could possibly be adapted to French Postcards if you can work out the method from the YouTube clip. And, the markings on the postcards allow you to do it without any pencil dots or dog-eared cards. Can't say this is a better handling for French Postcards, but it's another option if you don't want to have to count the cards or instruct the spectator how many cards need to be in each pile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K9sH6bgSuk Robert |
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Chris Philpott Special user 502 Posts |
Hey Egoli – I think it’s already available on Penguin. Pegasus, you might have to check again to find it at the UK shops (UK dealers feel free to chime in here!) The order just arrived at Murphy’s today.
Thanks, Jakob, Alex and Jheff! And thanks, Jheff for jumping in here. I agree with you: I’ve never thought of having to put the same number of cards in each pile as an issue – it never seemed mathy to me. If you’ve got the same number of each type of cards then obviously if you want to do it right, you have to have the same number in each pile at the end. Most spectators veer this way naturally – often you don’t have say a thing. As Jheff said, a prompt near the end like “with these last four cards, two go in each pile – which ones go where?” can be a nice moment. It marks this as the endgame, and you’re giving them a hint – you want them to succeed. In my Penguin lecture I talked briefly about archetypal story structure in magic tricks and how in OOTW the spectator is the hero and the performer is the mentor – you’re Gandalf, Merlin or Obi Wan Kenobi – it’s entirely appropriate for you to give them a bit of guidance. Sometimes, if I see the piles are going to be uneven, I let it happen. Then I pick up the light pile, spread the heavy pile on the table and say, “You’ve dealt one (or two or three) too many cards into this pile. Pull one card (or 2 or 3) out and hand it to me.” Then you just put the card or cards on the top or bottom of your pile as needed. It’s easy to keep track and if you get lost, the markings on the back of the cards can help here (yes, they’re marked). Really, you could even just look at the cards they hand you to see how they’ve done – their choices have been made. David, hopefully my pms have made it right for you. Steven, that sounds like a very cool handling! Hey Robert – cool clip. I don’t know the handling and I can’t really judge it since after the dealing there is some handling and cutting of the piles which is partly off camera. One of the things I love about Jon’s handling is once the dealing is done, you don’t handle the cards except for turning the cards over one by one and each pile is perfectly separated. But another cool thing about OOTW is that there have been so many handlings up til now, we have a huge choice of options available to us to suit our particular preferences. |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
The method in that clip looks awful IMO. It almost looks as if he's separating them for her before the reveal.
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts |
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On Jul 1, 2015, pegasus wrote: Well... there's very good misdirection at that point. The spectator is looking at the French postcard in front of her. And, the "third" pile is only there for a fraction of a second. But, I must admit I'm starting to think Jon Armstrong's handling is best for this. I do prefer the YouTube clip handling for Derren Brown's "Undertaker" though. Robert |
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Jheff V.I.P. 402 Posts |
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On Jul 1, 2015, Robert M wrote: You don't actually have to count the cards in Armstrong's version, nor in FRENCH POSTCARDS. I certainly don't. Honestly, I like no-brainer work, as most who are familiar with my work know. I just wait until there's about four or five cards left and then point out how to even the piles. That's when I openly count the cards and it makes sense. Once the piles are dealt, I simply look at the cards in my hand to see "how well you did" and, upon looking at them, I know how to proceed. I know I learned this from Jon, but not sure if it's on the video or in print or if he explained it in a lecture. "Undertaker" is fine and a great way to do OOTW type of effects (like WHITESTAR, which is similar to "Undertaker"), but because there is nothing really on the "backs" of the postcards to discuss, I'm not sure it would be the best way to do this wonderful new version of OOTW. - Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind PARIMENTAL, a 200 page exploration of a classic Martin Gardner principle, is now available!!
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
Makes perfect sense. It's what you would do if doing it for real. I like this presentation a lot.
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emyers99 Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 4741 Posts |
Can't add much that hasn't already been said. Very nice package all around. My favorite version of a non-card OOTW effect is still Sean Goodman's Genetics. Surprise ending no one can see coming. But Postcards is still very good.
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
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On Jul 5, 2015, emyers99 wrote: But genetics has a throwaway pile so not comparable really as an OOTW effect. |
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emyers99 Inner circle Columbus, Ohio 4741 Posts |
Yes. Method is totally different. End effect is still same for audience and I think the trash pile makes it even stronger. But Postcards is more true to the OOTW plot
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the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
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On Jul 5, 2015, pegasus wrote: I've seen OOTW routines with a throwaway/unsure pile, so... |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
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On Jul 5, 2015, the Sponge wrote: Don't believe everything magicians tell you. Tell me, did Bob Curry's original OOTW have a discard pile? No it didn't. |
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Adam Hince Special user Pittsburgh, PA 509 Posts |
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On Jul 6, 2015, pegasus wrote: Who is Bob Curry? |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Must be Paul's stage name.
The existence of a discard pile doesn't make the effect something other than OOTW. It's still an x-y separation effect. |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
Sorry, Paul. I have a friend Bob Curry.
Having a discard pile lessens the effect IMO, and easier to backtrack by a spec later on, so should not be confused with an OOTW effect. |
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geggy Elite user Brighton UK 477 Posts |
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On Jul 6, 2015, pegasus wrote: I agree with you, I have had Genetics a while now and never looked at it as an OOTW effect, I will be getting French Postcards sometime in the future having read all the positive posts....it looks great. |
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MacIrish Regular user 142 Posts |
Does anyone have a way they treat new cards like these so that they spread easily ?
Arthritis makes it a challenge to separate the cards when they are spread out, counted, etc. |
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Jack Straw Inner circle Wichita 1020 Posts |
Baby powder worked fine for me.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow We can share the women, we can share the wine |
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dooblehorn Inner circle Pittsburg, CA 2474 Posts |
I just got this...I want to love it...But (please be kind), I am not "getting" the instructions on how this works, nor the counting stuff.
I am definitely missing something, and feel very discouraged because I know it should be easy. I've read the written instructions and watched the video...not sure what to do. |
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