I know that some people pass the hat for tips after a performance in a bar(Doc Eason briefly mentions doing this after his multiple selection on his first tape, for example) and I was wondering what point of view the experienced bar-performers have on the subject.

Doc Eason, IIRC, passed the hat just before the Card On The Ceiling Through The Blades Of The Spinning Ceiling Fan trick.

It is justification for taking the "risk" of doing the trick (he reinforced the fan after an accident so that it could take a direct hit from a brick) and had ONE selection signed by a BUNCH of people before doing the trick. See the Tower Bar issue of the Journal of Magical Arts for details.

If you are planning on working just for tips, my suggestion is:

DON'T. EVER. ALWAYS GET PAID FOR YOUR WORK!!!

If, however, you are working for a salary and want to up the tip level in the jar when working the bar, then do what Doc did - come up with a specific bit that will get everybody involved, that involves (seemingly) more work or risk than usual and then pass the hat, going for a specific amount. Doc went for $100 per card on the ceiling.

The late, great, Paul Huffaker and I used to alternate between his straightjacket escape and my 100 foot challenge rope escape and would often pull several hundred dollars in a night.

The key is to come up with something SO special and hype it SO well that people are willing to shell out to see this impossibility!

Hope that helps!

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com

Well, just like Lee mentioned: always get paid for your work. Relying on tips is a risky bussiness.

In the bar I work we have 3 small tip containers on the bar, this works best since it's a "flair bartending" place and we(4bartenders) average about 500-600$ total a night.
Going around with a hat seems to pressure people to give tips, and that makes them uncomfortable.
With the containers there are no "pressure" and it seems to be the best way to get people to "empty their pockets" after a show;)

-e-

Lee and Eirik echo my feelings exactly.
Working for tips is akin to begging, so if you are going to do that, then at least be up front about it and get a tin cup and some pencils!

Most importantly, it puts unneeded pressure on the customer; they leave the bar or restaurant unhappy and that makes the management unhappy; and they were the people who hired you in the first place!

Your job is to SOLVE problems, not CREATE them!

You are a professional; act like it! Would your doctor or lawyer solicit tips?

cheers,
Peter Marucci

Good Morning,

If you work behind a bar in almost any of the places in the New York Metro area you are being paid some kind of hourly wage or more commonly shift pay.
Now this is not a great deal of money by any stretch of the imagination and so all bartenders rely on tips.

In order to increase that remuneration some individuals perform magic behind the bar. Generally, if performed well, it helps a great deal.
In this situation I do not feel that working for tips is begging.
I am providing the best service I possibly can to that person or persons and in addition to that I am entertaining them.
So there's a lot going on here.
I'm earning my shift pay/salary by showing up on time, looking sharp and doing my job to the best of my ability.
I'm also working hard to put money in that cash register because I would not be there without doing that.
And I'm going above and beyond by making that patron's visit more enjoyable by entertaining them.
Whether it be with a good story, show bartending or the best of all 'Magic Behind The Bar.'
In that case whoever is showing their appreciation with a generous tip is most welcome as is the person who does not tip.

Again, this is not 'begging' in my opinion.
It's just reality. We all have to survive.

Thanks for listening.

Vincent

Peter, I respect and admire you and listen to your advice. However you are WRONG about this. I posted to another topic in this forum about working for fee plus tips which is what I do. My income is largely tips. yes I can live on the fees alone but if I can double my income or even go even higher with the same amount of work, why not?

In our North American culture tipping is an accepted way of earning income, it is NOT, in any way, shape, or form, begging. Do you consider the waitress that serves you breakfast a begger? Do you look down on her as you would if she approached you on the street corner? Of course not! Neither should you consider that magi who get tips are "working a street corner."

Again, I will not work for tips alone, however a fee plus tip arrangement is very lucrative for me. It pays the rent, the car, all my expences plus allows me to put some aside for retirement (or just screwing around whichever I feel like.)

Peter

One more thing.

The previous post may seem like all of this is too much like work.
I have done this for over twenty years and have enjoyed every moment of it.

Take Care,

Vincent

I agreed fully with Paddy and Vincent when they say tips are acceptable.

Peter:
"Most importantly, it puts unneeded pressure on the customer; they leave the bar or restaurant unhappy and that makes the management unhappy; and they were the people who hired you in the first place!

Your job is to SOLVE problems, not CREATE them!"


Now, I don't know how much experience you have asking for tips or if you've seen someone work for tips horribly (ie flat out asking for tips, literally passing the hat, etc). But in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM would I ever make someone uncomfortable by suggesting tips are accepted! And your comment on how "working for tips is akin to begging" is entirely bovine excretement. Paddy hit the nail square on the head with that one.

Re: Tips. I don't know - I was once in a shabby little joint, doing magic, and someone tried to tip me a dollar. The problem was, I could have personally afforded to buy the place and everything in it (and I don't have much money). It just left a bad taste in my mouth. I think I could accept tips, but it's a dangerous practice, as when someone hands you their spare change, thinking that they're a real big person or something, and you really DON'T need their pitiful offerings of "charity". It makes you want to shove those coins right down that person's throat...which of course gets you fired.

I think it all depends on the spirit in which the tip is offered. There are those who just want to say thank you and this is the way they can think of doing it. They may or may not be rich and that will influence the amount of tip.

Most of the time I believe it is offered as a sincere gesture of appreciation and should be accepted. I don't personally choose to encourage tipping, but I don't refuse when offered. If they check first to see if it is OK, then I let them know it is not necessary as I am provided by the house to thank them for their patronage. If they still offer, I take it.

Kirk G.

Doc eason is able to ask for tips because the bar he works at is actually a resort bar, and it's not your typical bar full of drunks...I assume that it is an expensive resort and that's why the people are generous with tips...here in Canada where I live, people don't tip as well... they might throw in a buck or two, but that's about it.

Hold on! I never said "don't ACCEPT tips." To refuse a customer's way of saying thanks would be just plain rude.

However, I stand by my comment that you should not WORK for tips!

Or wear a stupid pin that says something like "Tipping is not a city in China"; or tote a tip jar with you, table to table; or borrow a bill and then get it so disgustingly filthy that the customer would sooner give it to you than take it back!

(BTW, I have seen so-called performers do ALL of the above things!)

There's nothing wrong with the waitstaff accepting tips; but you aren't part of the waitstaff -- you are a professional (or are supposed to be) and, as such, accepting tips should be a no-no. After all, does your doctor, lawyer, or dentist expect a tip?

While this may be true if you are an employee of the bar, it is not true if you are a busker. Busking is not begging. Buskers lay it right out on the table before you -- I'm giving you something of value -- a performance. I expect payment in return. The amount is up to you.

In hard times, doctors and lawyers work for chickens and eggs.

I work in the UK I don't get tips (well only very rarely.) I don't expect tips. It's just not our culture. We do tip waiters and cab drivers if we feel like it. Again, like me, even these people don't EXPECT tips. I work for a set fee, something that indicates my worth. Going by the above posts I'm kinda glad, we have no confusion in the UK, you get paid for the job you do and don't have to worry about the diplomacy of tips.

Boy - there's nothing like the ol'"Do I accept tips or not" thread to get a heated debate going! You guys should have been over at the L&L Publishing discussion board this week - we had Doc Eason over there and he would have given you an excellent answer!

I think tipping is a cultural and regional concept. When I was working restaurants in Las Vegas in the 80's, I accepted tips. It's Vegas, and everyone tips everyone for everything! When they are throwing 20's, 50's and 100's, you'd be crazy not too! People go there to be a big shot for a weekend. Many of them ARE big shots, so why not be gracious and accept their thanks!

Doc Eason would probably tell you that since he's in an expensive resort town like Aspen, the money is being thrown around and the people who are there can afford to. Doc certainly gives them their money's worth!

For the last 14 years, I've lived in the midwest - Milwaukee and St. Louis. Much more conservative attitude here and when I've worked restaurants here, I've usually stayed away from tips. I would rather negotiate a higher performing fee and have the regulars come back without feeling the obligation of tipping.

Yes, but let me remind you all that even though we may have differing opinions, it does NOT give anyone the right to get personal in their rebuttals.

Feel free to add to the debate, but do not suggest that someone personally is less of a magician because they do or do not accept tips.

I have been doing restaurant magic for over a dozen years & have never done anything to encourage a tip. Even when a bill is placed on the table in front of me, I will never pick it up or assume it is for me. I never hang around even if I see their wallet coming out. If they want to tip me, they had better be quick or come over to me later & give it to me.I do accept tips & I do appreciate them. It's just that I realize that I am there to bring in business for the restaurant & myself. If I hustle tips, I would not be there very long.

I have some regular customers that will tip me every time they come in. Every so often, I turn down their tip & thank them &tell them this one is on me. Both the restaurant & the guest know the difference between someone who is hustling tips & someone that is there to help promote business.

Tipping is wonderful but keeping your job is even better.

Ahh Gratuity, always accept with a smile They cannot show their affection any other way


Oppps! P.S. Best tip.... Rolex watch (about 6 years back).

Ok... anyway....

A good trick I have found that "tops" things is my presentation of "In a Flash".

Since it effectivly "ruins" the pack, it is very clear why you would only do it for special occasions and why it would be the last (card) trick you would do.


Here is another tip: If you have a drill press, make up as many IAF deck's as you can.... Nothing like being able to do this trick with different types of decks and specially with a borrowed deck.... and then give it away!!!

MacGyver,
What are you talking about????????

Eric Grossman