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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » /Anyone actively using Yelp (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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drosenbe0813
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Is anyone getting much business from Yelp? Personally I wouldn't think of Yelp to look for a magician, but maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks
BrianMillerMagic
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I'm not personally, though I have seen those who do. Remember, public reviews are a double edged sword. On one hand, sites like Yelp show up in Google rankings and can definitely help your organic results. On the other hand, *anybody* can leave a review, which means that one guy at the bar that one time who had a little too much and thought you sucked can leave a review the same as your satisfied clients. Keep that in mind.
Mindpro
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I personally am not a fan of these and really fail to see how they can directly result in business or bookings with any control, consistency or regularity. They are essentially a testimonial (or fake testimonial) that anyone could leave. Brian is correct in that anyone can leave a review which also includes disgruntled employees, drunks, laymen and as seem by many, including Danny Doyle, other entertainers (including your competition) that have a grudge, problem, are jealous or just as an attempt to discredit you.

Really, if you need these to get testimonials, you have bigger problems to worry about. Secondly, while these have different and better possible uses and perceptions for different types of businesses, say restaurants or auto repair places, they are not really established to have the same level of perception for performers.

I would prefer that any reviews, testimonials or shared experienced about my business, performances, appearances or show be from credible and qualified people that will influence other credible and possible decision-makers, not lay people, possibly with an axe to grind.

As the OP said, he wouldn't think of Yelp as a place to look for magicians or performers, and I hope it stays that way.
Tim Friday
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There is another thread about this here in Tricky Business with good info. I recommend searching it out...
BrianMillerMagic
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Quote:
On Jun 23, 2015, Tim Friday wrote:
There is another thread about this here in Tricky Business with good info. I recommend searching it out...


Come on Tim, stop giving the guy "the run around". Okay, I'm done. Smile
Mindpro
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Hilarious! I thought the same thing, especially coming from Tim who is always asking for specifics.
Mary Mowder
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I ask people how they heard of me and Yelp comes up as first contact or the deciding factor in their choice to call fairly often.

I have received an Email from someone wanting to trade 5 star reviews so that is horrible.

Also two 5 star ratings were not used (one eventually was) because the clients do not post on yelp often.

It is a mixed bag but I cannot make it go away.

-Mary Mowder
Tim Friday
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Haha fair enough.

Full disclosure, I made the last post from my phone and could not easily find the older post, so here it is now: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=44

Donald Dunphy might know of some other posts where this is discussed...
Close.Up.Dave
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I know people who's main driver of business is Yelp. I personally can't get any of my reviews to stick because Yelp's algorithm is stupid and hides reviews that the computer deems as spam, even if they aren't. Yelp reviews are great if they come from people who write reviews and are known within the community. If you ask a client who has never used it to write a review it will likely get hidden.

Most likely you'll get kids shows from it, but thanks to one of my friend's large presence on there, we both got booked for the biggest trade show we ever worked.

Like any platform, you get out what you put in. Smile
saysold1
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Yelp is easily now one of my top 3 drivers of business. I like it and I try to dominate in my market area by concentrating on it.

It drives more strolling business rather than stage but yelp has been a nice building block to my business.

It comes up high on organic Google searches too which is a nice plus. The hiding of reviews does drive me mishuganah but it's the nature of the beast. Just get more.

It's also free if you don't buy into the extras.

Highly recommended.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Mindpro
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I'm trying to distinguish from the posts and poster's above if the success or failure expressed is more based on consumer markets rather than professional markets. Still not sure since Brett posted what he did. Brett are these more for professional bookings or consumer leads you are referring to? Also I wasn't aware that you did strolling. Mentalism or magic? Are your leads coming form consumers or professionals?

I could perhaps see it for kids parties, scouts and other consumer events but not as much with professionals. Interesting.
MikeClay
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Yelp is a sub culture in and of itself. It is a consumer based market.
To get the same results for professional markets you will need to use LinkedIn

There is some crossover with Yelp and you should track the top citation sites / review sites as a 1 star drop can effect you bottom line by 19% (That statistic is from Harvard Business)
You can also use your reputation to leverage more business.

The days of tons of fake reviews are quickly fading away as the review systems are much smarter and are growing all the time. Google is now even tracking paired MAC address to IP clusters to filter out fake reviews.
saysold1
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Quote:
On Jun 23, 2015, Mindpro wrote:
I'm trying to distinguish from the posts and poster's above if the success or failure expressed is more based on consumer markets rather than professional markets. Still not sure since Brett posted what he did. Brett are these more for professional bookings or consumer leads you are referring to? Also I wasn't aware that you did strolling. Mentalism or magic? Are your leads coming form consumers or professionals?

I could perhaps see it for kids parties, scouts and other consumer events but not as much with professionals. Interesting.


Mindpro me Amigo - I've been doing strolling Mentalism work for over 5 years now and it is probably at least 60-70% of my business. The YELP calls I get are typically for private parties or smaller company gigs, and strolling is more typical of what they seek.

I do zero magic - only mind reading.

I carry a leather European man bag/purse (or whatever you call it!) with me when I stroll and have a large selection of possible material for 2 to 3 hours work - usually for groups of 100-400. I won't stroll for less than 75 as those smaller size shows naturally become mini parlor shows with everyone gathering and I charge more for a Parlor show as it requires more material to fill the time.

I would say that with YELP these are probably more consumer leads (at least 50%) but believe it or not MANY companies do book me or refer to YELP as the planners more and more seek out online reviews which they generally trust.

I take zero kid parties and won't do any gigs usually for under 18 (although I did do my first Bar Mitzvah party some months ago and it reminded me why I don't like weddings much or bar/bat mitzvahs - people are usually too $$$ stretched and hiring a guy like me is an afterthought).

I know some poo-poo the strolling Mentalism but I have found that bookers, DMC's and the public like it and it has allowed me to cut my teeth over the past 5 years by doing a large number of 2-3+ hour engagements. This has let me earn a few sheckels and test ideas out in real time. I'm also and have been (living in Phoenix) a regular beta tester for PM and some of Craig's unreleased products and the strollling allows me many more "at bats."

I'm hitting a stage (pun intended) where I'm now getting a little tired of the strolling and pursuing the more lucrative stage and parlor shows and also raising my rates (which I've done every single year anyway). My strolling rates now are higher than most of the Magician's in my town but it is still not in the same league as what one could get for typical stage shows or the emcee work.

But as I said the strolling lets me get more practice and work routines to a finer point. I am able to use that in many cases to carry over into my stage work.

Back to YELP - like I said it has been a godsend for my strolling work (listed in the Magician category).
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Mindpro
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Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like you're tailoring your offerings for your target market which is always the best approach.
sjbrundage
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Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, saysold1 wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 23, 2015, Mindpro wrote:
I'm trying to distinguish from the posts and poster's above if the success or failure expressed is more based on consumer markets rather than professional markets. Still not sure since Brett posted what he did. Brett are these more for professional bookings or consumer leads you are referring to? Also I wasn't aware that you did strolling. Mentalism or magic? Are your leads coming form consumers or professionals?

I could perhaps see it for kids parties, scouts and other consumer events but not as much with professionals. Interesting.


Mindpro me Amigo - I've been doing strolling Mentalism work for over 5 years now and it is probably at least 60-70% of my business. The YELP calls I get are typically for private parties or smaller company gigs, and strolling is more typical of what they seek.

I do zero magic - only mind reading.

I carry a leather European man bag/purse (or whatever you call it!) with me when I stroll and have a large selection of possible material for 2 to 3 hours work - usually for groups of 100-400. I won't stroll for less than 75 as those smaller size shows naturally become mini parlor shows with everyone gathering and I charge more for a Parlor show as it requires more material to fill the time.

I would say that with YELP these are probably more consumer leads (at least 50%) but believe it or not MANY companies do book me or refer to YELP as the planners more and more seek out online reviews which they generally trust.

I take zero kid parties and won't do any gigs usually for under 18 (although I did do my first Bar Mitzvah party some months ago and it reminded me why I don't like weddings much or bar/bat mitzvahs - people are usually too $$$ stretched and hiring a guy like me is an afterthought).

I know some poo-poo the strolling Mentalism but I have found that bookers, DMC's and the public like it and it has allowed me to cut my teeth over the past 5 years by doing a large number of 2-3+ hour engagements. This has let me earn a few sheckels and test ideas out in real time. I'm also and have been (living in Phoenix) a regular beta tester for PM and some of Craig's unreleased products and the strollling allows me many more "at bats."

I'm hitting a stage (pun intended) where I'm now getting a little tired of the strolling and pursuing the more lucrative stage and parlor shows and also raising my rates (which I've done every single year anyway). My strolling rates now are higher than most of the Magician's in my town but it is still not in the same league as what one could get for typical stage shows or the emcee work.

But as I said the strolling lets me get more practice and work routines to a finer point. I am able to use that in many cases to carry over into my stage work.

Back to YELP - like I said it has been a godsend for my strolling work (listed in the Magician category).


Hi Saysold,
Kinda off topic.. but I wonder what you charge for strolling Mentalism in Phoenix. I have been playing with my rates for sometime.. (Located in Upstate New York). Just curious what they are out in Phoenix?

Feel free to avoid answering the question if you don't want to. The reason I am interested is because I was having a long discussion with a close friend and local magician the other day about price.

Thank you, Steven
Mindpro
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I think this could be interesting for some here. There are several issues at hand in this area as they pertain to business operations.

Seems Brett uses the strolling mentslism often as a vehicle in his business for larger or greater opportunities. But my concern would be in other areas with this. Likely he or a mentalist could get a higher rate than a magician for the corporate markets. Yet at the same time I'm not sure why one would (other than money) reduce mentalism to a closeup or strolling environment, which screams magic to most people and in my opinion could reduce your perception and value as a mentalist.

At one of my agencies we often refuse such bookings (strolling mentalism) for this very reason. It seems to work for Brett, at least in his perception but I wonder about the bigger picture of earning potential and long term business and relations with the clients?

I'm guessing he charges more than magicians in his area. The bigger key to me if if in doing so he's doing straight mentalism or mentalism mixed with magic, which of course makes it all magic in the eyes of many.

Also Phoenix has always been a great mentalism market so I'm sure that plays a role into what he charges. I also think business operations is and likely should be different for a mentalist than a magician, just as it is for a hypnotist and a magician.

This probably should be it's own thread, but I do think this all plays am important role how it relates to audiences and Yelp positioning, feedback and credibility.
saysold1
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Mindpro: I will try to answer some questions this weekend - heading out for the evening now.

Steven - as far as rates (which I generally prefer to keep under hat) my goal for strolling is to not take less than close to a grand for a gig and that has been working well these past few years. I usually arrive 20-30 min early and get going right away.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
sjbrundage
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Thank you for the reply. Fully understand that.
saysold1
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Mindpro wrote:

Seems Brett uses the strolling mentslism often as a vehicle in his business for larger or greater opportunities. But my concern would be in other areas with this. Likely he or a mentalist could get a higher rate than a magician for the corporate markets. Yet at the same time I'm not sure why one would (other than money) reduce mentalism to a closeup or strolling environment, which screams magic to most people and in my opinion could reduce your perception and value as a mentalist.

At one of my agencies we often refuse such bookings (strolling mentalism) for this very reason. It seems to work for Brett, at least in his perception but I wonder about the bigger picture of earning potential and long term business and relations with the clients?

I'm guessing he charges more than magicians in his area. The bigger key to me if if in doing so he's doing straight mentalism or mentalism mixed with magic, which of course makes it all magic in the eyes of many.

Also Phoenix has always been a great mentalism market so I'm sure that plays a role into what he charges. I also think business operations is and likely should be different for a mentalist than a magician, just as it is for a hypnotist and a magician.

This probably should be it's own thread, but I do think this all plays am important role how it relates to audiences and Yelp positioning, feedback and credibility.


I am doing pretty much straight Mentalism for my strolling as I said. I know the subject has come up many times as to whether strolling somehow demeans mentalism, or hurts it's impact but frankly I have never felt that way and rather I find the opposite to be true - that people may get a 1st taste of it and want to see more later.

For my strolling I use an ID but with a longer presentation and not the old ID routine but rather an influence routine of my own. Onbiously bringing cards of any kind into a strolling environment might scream Magician to many, but this is never the 1st thing I do when approaching. I've always felt the ID was one of the hardest hitting ideas ever created and there are many ways it can be presented. Simply walking up to someone and saying think of a card and bam - spreading to one face down (which I have seen local performers at the same gigs do with ZERO presentation using this or BW) to me is dullsville and feels magic.

When strolling my metal bending with a quarter is my signature and I typically do it first, talking about power energy between people etc. As you all know with strolling hard hitting is needed instantly to gain credibility.

For 2nd and 3rd I might use MOBT (paperback), Booked, a flashback book, Glance, CT, PK tpuches, which hand routine, key bend (Flexion), spoon bending, Cataclysm (cards agaon but with a future prediction theme), PM MD mini, Cinema Verite (great for strolling with multiple guests), and some others that I have on hand in pockets or in my over shoulder man bag. Obviously I don't need that much material for a group of 300+ as I could just wash/rinse repeat with 3-6 effects but the variety keeps ME from getting bored!

Yes Phoenix has no shortage of respected Mentalists (lets see - Kenton is here + Larry Becker up North, Craig Filicetti, Gene Urban, Chris Calswell and Max Krause just moved away a few years ago).

But I'm getting a little tired of the strolling as I am hitting the upper limits of what I can likely charge in this market, and I feel that the stage work can be more rewarding at the end of the day (or night). I feel strolling in fact has offered me a wonderful niche - and I don't regret the experiences.

I'm sure a performer like Doc Eason (in the magic world) was able to hone and perfect many skills working is Aspen all those years at the bar. As a Mentalist I've had a lot of fun with the strolling and YELP has been the best conduit for these kinds of gigs.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Decomposed
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I just had a nice Yelp review hidden by the Yelp computer. It was a long drawn out review and Yelp computer decided it was not worthy of attention from potential customers. Its like I get a review and one drops. What gives with this place? I am told its the number two search for all mobile users. Buzzwatch being number one. Go figure. Smile
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