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starstruck Regular user Croatia 111 Posts |
Hello everyone, I'm a long time lurker and today I've decided to registrer so I can participate in various discussions. Something about myself: I've been interested in mentalism for quite some time now. I'm a beginner (never performed effects before live audience), and I've read the classics like the 13 steps, and own some DVDs (like Osterlind's Easy to master).
My question is: how did you establish yourself as a mentalist in the eyes of your friends? I mean, they know you don't have any special powers because they know you for a long time. My friends don't even know I'm interested in stuff like that. Some of them know I like psychology (which I really do, I read books on influence, suggestion and body language in my free time), should I just go and structure my performance and show it to them? How do you go from an everyday ordinary guy to someone who can read your mind through "watching your body language" or "influencing" decisions? I feel It's much easier to be a "psychic" or a "body language expert" or whatever to someone you don't know than to your friends. I hope you understand my question, any answer would be appreciated. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Welcome. The easy and true answer is you don't. The same is always a concern for students or beginners of hypnosis, as family and friends do not and typically will not accept then as a hypnotist. Your concern shoudllbe about the two types of people that really, truly matter - those that hire or book you and those you are performing for - your audience.
Friends will only always see what you do as tricks, so why waste the time and effort to try to convince them otherwise? I've always been a proponent of never performing for family and friends for many reasons of which this is one. Best of luck! |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
You can keep the psychological angle if that's your preference - however, you just can't suddenly convince your close friends that its real...not really... but their extended circle of friends, people you don't know socially - they would possibly find your set-up more believable...because they are only going to be able to judge you on a clean slate so to speak... so its up to you to be consistent...
however, its far better - to grab the bull by the horns, and get out there, be it at social gatherings, parties, that kind of thing - and just experiment doing one simple thing for strangers once you get chatting to them...then you can build up to three things, and then you can start seeing how they all join together (or don't) and you can make little tweaks and improvements here and there... i think you will find lots of opportunities if you just want to have some fun and try out some stuff - just don't go overboard and try to do too much all at once...take it easy...and if it goes wrong, well..no one is going to shoot you and it'll be forgotten and you can just learn from it and move onwards and upwards... if its a friend of a friend thing, you could always just start dropping little hints here and there with your friends, that you're really excited about what you've learned and you've been trying to conduct these weird little experiments you have been reading up on in some much older psychology books... the other thing to consider is, you may well bump into people who know a lot about real psychology - so if you make certain claims, it'll set off alarm bells that you're messing with them...there is a line in the sand that if you cross it, it just sounds a bit too much (in my opinion), especially if you're young and not Jung... so instead, why not just shift it a little to asking open ended questions? "ever had a psychic experience?" - "do you believe that there are things we have yet discovered about the human mind?" - "do you believe in coincidences or fate?" stuff like that...that way you get instant feedback from people, you suddenly become someone who is interested in THEM (and you should be!) and it doesn't paint you into a corner either... start small and concise, ask a question, listen, smile, feedback, do something that ties in with that question, thank them for their time and tell them how much you appreciate them....go from there... that's how I see it...
I've asked to be banned
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Investigative Mentalist Special user Seattle, WA 565 Posts |
Starstruck, I'm in the same position as you, I just recently started performing for live audiences.
Forget about performing for friends and family, mentalism only works when you perform in front of "strangers" who don't know you. As you posted, your friends and family know you do NOT have any special powers so there is no way you can get reactions out of them similar to what you get from a real audience because they will probably spend most of their time trying to figure out "how did you do that TRICK?" I learned that early on, which is why I decided to get serious and start performing for real audiences. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
This is simply one of the many decisions and prethoughts and one must consider and decide when first becoming a performer that create and add to your image, perception and credibility. It's always more than just the performance of tricks or effects when becoming performer.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Mentalism really isn't a hobby in the same way that magic is. It's not something you're going to convince your friends or family with. The actual illusion of mentalism can really only be created before audiences of strangers, preferably those who've paid to see you based on your reputation and promotional abilities.
That's why Charlie Reynolds and once agreed that was was really no such thing as "amateur mentalism." |
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1533 Posts |
Some members of my family think I'm the real deal but of course, my baby cousins don't count.
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I'm sorry your friends don't think you have special powers. That's one of the most important things there are.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Take a look at this free introductory video download from Osterlind's 13 Steps. http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5480
He makes some wonderful points about the realm of mentalism. One point that I found interesting is that he presents himself not as having special powers, but that he has studied and developed powers that everyone has. He makes follow-up points about how we come across as more believable and avoid pitfalls that way. Even friends would have to give you credit for "developing" powers that they also have. Sort of like developing athletic ability. Anyway, at the price, you can't beat it as advice to beginners. David |
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
SS:
In some contrast to what Bob Cassidy suggested, I know there are amateur mentalists who audiences enjoy and take seriously enough; I am one. I have a comfortable retirement income and no serious need for fees, and in my city I have found a good range of audiences who have entertainment programs, no entertainment budget, and fairly high expectations! From my experience, I can especially agree with Bob that friends and family, at least for now, are not your main target audience. Target group and parlor sized audiences of strangers. In time, your friends and cousins will hear from others about how they experienced your performance. George |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
My reference to "amateur mentalism" was figurative, George. But, nonetheless, creating the illusion that you actually DO have a special mental power is not easy for a hobbyist, who performs only for friends and family, to accomplish.
The illusion is most effectively created before audiences of strangers. |
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Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts |
Hi Starstruck - I know from personal experience that you definitely CAN have family and close friends believe that you can use body language and influencing their decisions etc to "read their minds". But it didn't happen overnight and it took a lot of planning for these random effects to take place!
Obviously that is different to convincing them that you have 'mentalist powers' in the traditional sense. It all depends what you want to achieve, where you are starting from, your journey so far, etc etc etc. I honestly believe that it can be done, but it rarely is, so that should tell you something! Good luck with whatever you do. |
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JarJarJared New user 77 Posts |
Most casual settings with friends and family do not work for mentalism when it comes to both method and presentation. Family and friends are too comfortable with saying whatever is on their mind and being too conversational, which could ultimately ruin the outcome of an effect.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Also, there's no real point in trying to convince your family or close friends, cos they wont pay to see you...
I've asked to be banned
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starstruck Regular user Croatia 111 Posts |
Thank you all for your answers, they are definitely helpful. Ofcourse my primary audience would be strangers, but I feel I need to practice in front of my family and friends, because it's a "safe enviorment". But then again, the feedback wouldn't be 100% accurate because they know me. This comes as a double-edged sword.
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Prometheus Special user Europe 524 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, E.E. wrote: I have a funny story to this. My little cousin always enjoyed some magic tricks and was really excited by them. At the age of ten, he suddenly said after showing him a trick: "I know this not real, you just trick me!". Well, I was a bit shocked by that, becouse from this point on, he enjoyed magic much less. I have always called them magic tricks and never claimed to be real. I asked him how this new opinion came, and he replied that there was someone on TV revealing magic tricks.
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Prometheus |
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Marc O Special user The Netherlands 755 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Rolyan wrote: I totally agree with you. Once I took a step back in the kind of effects I was showing to family and friends and left, for example, the mindreading demonstration for the people that don't know me and started to use bodylanguage, influencing choices, memory demonstration for the people that know me well it al started to be more real for them. The question is iff you perform effects with bodylanguage or infleuncing choices, does that still counts as beeing a mentalist or not? Anyway I used to worry about whether I was a MENTALIST or not... Now I don't care about that anymore, I just perform effects which people close to me see as the real deal, and that is what I wanted to achieve. |
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Marc O Special user The Netherlands 755 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, IAIN wrote: Would money be the motivation whether you want it to be real or not? Please explain, because maybe I misinterpreted you comment. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
His family would never book him for a gig, and they knew him before his interest in mentalism...so there's no real gain, he will not convince them he is suddenly psychic or a master of the mind...he can still practice his presentations with them, but the feedback won't be the same will it...
I've asked to be banned
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
My Mother felt that each of her seven children had special abilities an talents similar to in Taylor Caldwells' "Sound of Thunder."
As my interest and demonstrated abilities bent towards things considered impossible by others she encouraged me -- but requested that I not involve my siblings a sit might derail their personal development efforts in music, etc. She and Dad came to see me perform conjuring and mental =based effects like Hellstromism at other locations, but di not want me to do these things in here home. She reluctantly agreed for me to perform as entertainment at my sister's wedding reception, but only under an assumed name and not as her brother. This may seem weird, but affirms that such things are best performed for strangers -- even if you have to fake it. I look at it as a compliment that she considered my "psychic" abilities as real and worth nurturing -- and feared my siblings would derail me! I would suggest that the "trust" required for mental-based performance is different from that for conjuring. Not "better than," just different; but that the desired creation of an "experience of real magic" in both requires a level of trust difficult to achieve with siblings. For the OP I would suggest performing for strangers exclusively until siblings and close friends request that you perform at some function for them. What must be avoided is a casual demonstration of a new skill or any idea that you are "practicing on them" in preparation of "good" performance. See Iain's comment above. Any feedback received may not be of value to your future as a performer.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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