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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Using Fakini Balls with real Snooker Balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Banedon
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I am planning on upgrading from my Vernet multiplying balls to a set of Fakinis (in no small part because of how the Vernet spikes shred the skin on my fingers - but also because I am starting to feel somewhat competent with them and want to upgrade to a more professional set of balls).

I have a set of standard sized snooker balls that I use to play snooker with (yes, a guy in the US's absolute favorite game is snooker - and yes, I take them to the bar with me when I rent a pool table). They are the just above 2" standard size.

Has anyone had any experience with simultaneously using Fakinis with real snooker balls during the same act? I did a lot of searching the forums and the internet and reading reviews of different balls (a shame the Collector's Workshop balls seem to be unobtainable at the moment!), but could not locate the answer to this particular question.

They are manufactured out of different materials and are different weights and probably grip differently.

There might be a difference in the noise they make. Is there? How significant is it? Under what circumstances does it matter? I HATE the plastic sound of the Vernet balls (another reason I wish I could find the Collector's Workshop balls).

However, since I have these balls already - I thought it would be great to use them. But if it is really going to be an exercise in frustration - then maybe I should pursue something else.

I am serious about multiplying balls - they are one of the things I intend to properly perform as opposed to studying to be able to perform more complicated tricks from their fundamentals.

Am I getting ahead of myself and should the next step actually be Fakini golf balls? What are people's thoughts on progression? I see pros and cons but there has been a lot of great information on these forums and I would appreciate some additional advice before I spend a lot of money on the wrong thing.

I am planning on calling Fakinis to ask about the Prestige Red they advertise on their site as that is the proper matching color to the snooker ball red. They show two reds on their site but only one red in the order form. I read that this might have been a special order for the movie The Prestige and they are likely sold out by now - but it never hurts to ask. I really want that color.

On a related note - if you were buying just one set (for now), what color would it be and why?
David Todd
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Quote:
There might be a difference in the noise they make. Is there? How significant is it? Under what circumstances does it matter? I HATE the plastic sound of the Vernet balls (another reason I wish I could find the Collector's Workshop balls).


The Fakini balls don't make any discernible noise . They are silicone . They certainly won't make an audible "click" sound like two snooker balls when they make contact. Unless you are working very close to the audience I would not expect that to be much of an issue . (the bigger issue will be whether the Fakini red balls will actually match the real snooker balls in color and surface sheen) . I think any noise or lack of noise could be covered by music if you perform this as a silent manipulation routine.

You might have better luck matching the color of a real snooker ball by using wooden balls , if you can find anyone who will custom make a set of balls that are the same size as snooker balls. 2" balls are more common , but as you know a snooker ball is slightly larger than 2" . The wooden balls will "click" on contact , perhaps not with the exact same sound as two snooker balls contacting, but maybe close enough if the sound is important to you.

Quote:
I am serious about multiplying balls


Get Levent's DVD set - http://bob.machighway.com/~leventma/Leve......DVD.html

Quote:
Am I getting ahead of myself and should the next step actually be Fakini golf balls?


I've used the Fakini golf balls and they are very good . The advantage is that golf balls seem like more of a common item , and obviously in terms of handling most people find golf ball size easier to manipulate than a 2" or 2 1/8" size. The only disadvantage compared to the 2" or 2 1/8" balls is that the golf balls are not as visible in a large theater setting or from a platform in a large hotel banquet room , etc. But if you typically work in a more intimate setting where you are closer to the audience then the golf balls show up fine.

Quote:
I am planning on calling Fakinis to ask about the Prestige Red they advertise on their site as that is the proper matching color to the snooker ball red.


The "Prestige Red" Fakini does look like the closest match you'll get to a real snooker ball.

Image



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Banedon
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Thank you. That is helpful information.

No sound is ok. Completely different sounds that have no clear association like plastic and then hard resin is a dead giveaway that something is up.

Levent's set is on my short list of things to purchase sooner than later.

The Prestige red sure does look the right color from that picture (which is the one I was referincing in my initial post) - but I have a suspicion they only have the Rocket Red in stock. I will find out when I call.

Fakinis also carries 2.125" balls. I am not sure if those are the same size as standard snooker balls. Also, I am concerned that is starting to get too big to deal with and I should drop the idea of combining them with real balls altogether. What are all of your experiences?

I plan on having these seen from further away - so maybe I will skip the golf balls.
David Todd
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Quote:
Also, I am concerned that is starting to get too big to deal with and I should drop the idea of combining them with real balls altogether.


Well, if you've got the snooker balls now , how do they handle ? Can you roll one in your fingers, can you palm it , can you hold 4 of them in the classic display ?

http://www.shaunyee.com/en/components/co......b3a1.jpg

Image


If your fingers are nimble enough and large enough to manipulate real snooker balls you'll be fine with the Fakini's , which are much lighter and easier to grip . But yes, most people would find the 2.125" Fakini balls a stretch (literally) to manipulate comfortably. If you can find some inexpensive 2" - to - 2.125" rubber balls try manipulating those in your fingers . How do they feel to you ? Whether you use the smaller size golf balls or the larger "billiard" balls it will require a lot of practice. But you won't go wrong with Levent's DVDs if you will put in the necessary time to practice.
Banedon
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My left hand does ok with the snooker balls. I think with a bit of practice it will do great. My right hand cannot manage 4 balls at all. I attribute this to my left hand being conditioned to stretch for a guitar fretboard. Therefore, I think that my right can eventually do it, but it will require a lot of training. The right hand has no issue with the Vernet balls (other than the spiked grips being painful) - but those are much smaller - (1 and 6/8"?).

Palming is a whole different story. The snooker balls are kind of big for me to do anything but a finger palm. But they are slippery - so maybe using something as you suggest that grips better . . . I will look into getting some cheap rubber balls that are 2.125" as you suggest.

I am not sure what the best approach is. Maybe get the golf balls (it is not like they would get put in a box and never used again even if I "graduated" to larger ones later on) and train with the snooker balls to slowly improve my ability to use larger ones? Get the smallest sized regular (non-golf) ones?

How did you go about it?

Either way, I am definitely prioritizing the Levent DVDs and am definitely dedicating the necessary time to practice (right now my instructional materials for the balls are Tarbell and Hay and I can do the standard Tarbell routine about Adam and Eve). It is a question of what should I be using to practice and how to plan a development schedule so I do not invest in the wrong equipment.
Bill Hegbli
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Professionals and I, believe that you should use Billiard Balls that your hand and fingers can handle. Trying to work for years just to cripple your fingers is just ridiculous in my opinion. Balls setting in a draw because you fee defeated, does no one any good. If you are 6' to 6' 2", or over, maybe you could handle 2" balls, but the norm is 1-5/8" to 1-3/4". Even the famous Shamada uses 1-1/2" balls. Stopping the presentation to jam the balls back between the fingers is very unprofessional.

Don't worry that much about the noise when the balls hit one another. It just shows they are solid balls. Scrapping is another matter, with practice using the right technique that will go away. It has to do with finger placement, and everyone is different.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Banedon
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Thank you, that is good advice. I definitely would not perform with a size that I could not handle. The point that I should start with what I definitely could more quickly perform with is well taken. I will get the smaller balls since I seem to do quite well with 1-3/4" ones already.

What colors do you find to be most visible at the greatest distance in both well and dimly lit settings?
Bill Hegbli
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What color is a personal choice, but it also has to do with your choice in clothing. You would use red balls if you wear a red shirt, and you would not use white balls if you wear a white shirt. The come in so many colors today, it is whatever color you would enjoy using.

Traditionally, White and/or Red balls have been the standard for traditional magic. Think what your background will be also in most cases. Todays performers do not perform so much on stage, but in homes or on the street and parks. Green may not be a great color if surrounded with trees and plants. But, most of todays magicians have to work the balls in front of the body more because of angels in semi-surrounded settings. So we are back to your clothing choices.

There is just so much new billiard ball moves and effects that have been put out in the last few years, it is very difficult to give advice, as it all depends on how much a person is willing to work on an amazing routine for themselves.

My advice would be to get the rubber billiard balls on eBay from China to begin with as your progression in learning would accelerate very quickly. They come in Red, White, and Green. Also if you want to experiment with the 2 inch balls, this is a good place to start, as the rubber helps in controlling the balls. I suggest you paint the inside gimmick the same color as the outside of the gimmick, this will lesson the back light issue when working, by making the gimmick more opaque. My advice would be to leave the expensive Fakini balls until have you have a routine that can be enhanced by the use of quality Billiard Balls.

Finally, there is no reason to have real snooker balls mixed in with the Fakini Balls, unless you just want to prove then solid hard balls for some reason. In actuality, that is not the trick of the multiplying Billiard Balls. The trick is the multiplication of Balls from 1 to 4, or 1 to 8, or as some have done, 1 to 10. It is artistry and movement with showmanship that intertwined with color changes, vanishes, appearances, and multiplication all performed with wonder.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Banedon
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Thanks. That information on color, clothing, and background is very helpful.

The rubber balls from China - are those the gorilla grip balls or do you mean a different brand? There are very mixed reviews on the gorilla grips - but they are a quarter the price of Fakinis and maybe a better choice for practicing with the added ability to use them live.

The ideas I have concerning mixing snooker balls in are transitioning between different effects. For example, finding a seamless way to swap the multipiers out with the the snooker balls for a different set of effects. My thought was that since I already have the snooker balls and if the multiplying balls were to be the same size, then I could more easily transition to something else. E.g., effects that involve pure sleights with rainbow changes and the like. However, I think I am getting ahead of myself with this as my right hand cannot yet handle the flourish.
Bill Hegbli
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Gorilla grip are junk, I got a set once and sent them back.

The china balls are called, "Rubber Billiard Balls", they cost about $15 as I remember.

Oh, I forgot the best value for the money, Jieli brand balls, they are excellent and come in red and white.

I will PM you.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
David Todd
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Quote:
On Jun 28, 2015, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Gorilla grip are junk, I got a set once and sent them back.

The china balls are called, "Rubber Billiard Balls", they cost about $15 as I remember.

Oh, I forgot the best value for the money, Jieli brand balls, they are excellent and come in red and white.

I will PM you.


Hi, Bill,

I know from reading your posts over the years that you've done a lot of research on different versions of the Multiplying Balls . In looking up
an older post of yours (here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 ) I see you were favorably impressed by the Jie Li balls, which you mention again in your previous post above . I would like to ask you a question: are the Jie Li balls the same as the JL (Mirage) balls ? Is "JL" Jie Li or some other "JL" ? It's confusing .

Here are the JL Balls : http://jlmagic.net/product.html?snd=cGdu......PTE1NTU0 (also listed sometimes as "JL Mirage balls" (for example, here: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S14380 ) .

Thanks for any light you can shed on this.
Bill Hegbli
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JL is a Korean company, and sold at many magic dealers like Penguin Magic, Daytona magic, etc. JL balls are do not have a gloss finish.

Jieli is a China Company, and are sold on eBay. These are silicon and cling very well, come with 2 gimmicks with each set.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
David Todd
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Quote:
On Jun 28, 2015, Bill Hegbli wrote:
JL is a Korean company, and sold at many magic dealers like Penguin Magic, Daytona magic, etc. JL balls are do not have a gloss finish.

Jieli is a China Company, and are sold on eBay. These are silicon and cling very well, come with 2 gimmicks with each set.


Thank you for clearing that up. (I had thought "JL" might stand for "Jie Li" ... I should have searched more thoroughly on the Café, because I found the answer in another old thread , but I appreciate you answering it again here.)
Banedon
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Thank you for all of the advice. I really appreciate it. I bought a set of red silicon Jieli balls on eBay and am already impatient for their arrival so as to spend many hours practicing with them.
Brad Jeffers
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Here is something I posted back in 2002 ...

I myself, have a preference for wooden balls, rather than the silicone Fakini balls. For one thing, painted wooden balls simply look better than the Fakini balls. They are seamless, and the color is more vibrant. (The red Fakini balls are more of a translucent pink than red). To me, only the white Fakini balls look good, and I've come to prefer red balls over white. As to handling, it's true that the Fakini balls do have that nice "cling" quality, which makes for somewhat easier palming and MUCH more easier finger rolls and flourishes. But I don't care much for flourishes in a billiard ball routine and palming a wooden ball is no more difficult than a silicone ball, once your accustomed to it. That cling quality can also be a negative thing with some moves. In some moves two balls are required to pass around each other in the hand. If two silicone balls contact each other, the cling effect that is so handy when palming, can be very detrimental, as the balls cling to each other even more so than to your skin! If you use a large diameter ball, it's hard to avoid this contact. Wooden balls glide right over each other, and I love the little click they make as they touch together. In addition, the cling factor is a hinderance in stealing balls from certain types of holders. The way I see it, all the great billiard ball workers (Cardini, Maurice Rooklyn, Bill Baird, etc.) used wooden balls. If it was good enough for them ...

Here is the entire thread - http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=10
Bill Hegbli
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Brad Jeffers, I absolutely agree with your the points you make. But - the advantages you mentioned are purely emotional ones, and are your justifications for using wood balls, these reasons have nothing to do with the performance of Billiard Balls to or for an audience. Holders, and such can all be worked out with other choices.

The important part is the cling feature and the routine and how it is presented to an audience. Any choices should be made with this in mind.

Finally, I would rather buy a $30 set of Jieli for my 1st experience then spend $100 dollars on wood, which are not available currently or Fakini just to see if they are a product I will continue to use.

If a person wants to get into the new Asian magicians moves that are currently offered, then Jieli is the balls to purchase for these finger handlings. I have purchased every variety of Billiard Ball on the market, and in my opinion, Jieli fits the current needs for all Billiard Ball routines.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Banedon
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Thanks. The thread was an interesting read and you make some good points which are not lost on me. My current first for an expensive set is the CW balls - but they are currently unavailable. The price is comparable to Fakini. However, after Bill and David's extremely helpful advice I ordered a set of Jieli balls (still en route to me) as an upgrade from the Vernet and will go from there. When I feel I am ready for a more expensive set I hope to be able to find someone who has a set of Fakini and/or wood and spend a few minutes with each to help make a more informed decision.
iluzjonista
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I considering punchasing Fakini balls but was wondering if the balls doesn't stick inside the s...l. With billard balls it's very easy to take it out. How easy it is with Fakini balls?
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On Jan 23, 2017, iluzjonista wrote:
I considering punchasing Fakini balls but was wondering if the balls doesn't stick inside the s...l. With billard balls it's very easy to take it out. How easy it is with Fakini balls?


First, Fakini family is not making their Balls any longer.

To answer your question, yes the Fakini balls had a snug fit, and stick in the gimmick. You have to give them a little "break" before production.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
iluzjonista
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Whta a bad news:-( Could you please advise where to ges a s...l which fits to normal billard balls if I decide to buy it. Is there a place where you can buy good quality normal billard balls with matching s...l?
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