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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » What happened, was this... » » Pet Peeves when learning from and dealing with other magicians (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mike Walton
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Chicago
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First off, let me say that the magic community is a strong one and I've been blown away by the kindness, knowledge and helpfulness of others in local neighborhoods and various states and countries nationally and internationally.

That said, what are your pet peeves in dealing with these "magic family members." This is meant to be tongue and cheek, not evil dark cloud.

I have two (at least).

Let's say you want to research sponge magic, and request a recommendation on the best resource. Some well-meaning magi suggests Encyclopedia of Sponge Ball Magic by Garcia, one of the hardest to find, out of print books (in my limited experience) that sells for between $199 and $245 and higher. Thanks for the recommendation Smile

The second, you comment that possibly, Houdini could have used a left handed baily wick in his deceptive super vanish box (for example.) Someone replies "I knew Harry Houdini and you don't know what you're talking about" when in fact, knowing Harry Houdini has nothing to do with the left handed baily wick nor the technique involved.

Let's keep this fun and non-personal.
marko
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Inner circle
2110 Posts

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I hate it when other magicians make more money than me. Thumbs down to that Smile
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
nums
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I have a life, or I would have more than
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I used to belong to a club, and I quit going due to the fact when they asked who was doing what, and I started naming what I was doing they would tell me it could not be done that way. I also got a lot of "You should do this or that." This was coming from people who are doing 1 or 2 shows a year for family, and I make a living doing this. I am not a great magician, but feel I am a good entertainer, and all they want to do is put down people who are more successful than they are.

I do not find this to be true at the Café' A great big THANKS to Steve Brooks and the gang for such a great site.


Jeff
Reis O'Brien
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Seattle, WA
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Ok, I know this guy, and he's a great fella, but he is by far the laziest person I have ever seen. He has been doing magic professionally for about 15 years, but he is so sloppy. I recently went to one of his shows and he was flashing so bad during his card productions that the specs started crossing their arms and looking at eachother as if to say, "Is this guy for real?" So later, I tried to kindly let him know he was flashing and he just shrugged and said, "Oh well." He didn't even care!

And for months he has been talking about getting back into restaraunt magic, so I designed some fliers and table-toppers and business cards for him and the other day I saw them crushed and crumpled on the floor of his car. These were originals mind you, he never even went to make copies. And when I mentioned to him that I was interested in trying to get a restaurant gig, myself, he tried to tell me that this was kind of his turf, yet he still won't go get a gig!

And then, I have made a few effects, my own designs. I made some for him too out of kindness. But a week ago, I saw the envelope with my specially hand made cards and gaffs still in them on his kitchen floor with dog food spilled all over them!

He's an awesome guy, but sometimes his apathy just breaks my heart. And don't worry, he never comes in here so he won't read this (that would take too much effort, for one) and I'm not naming names, anyway!
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur

http://www.myspace.com/liar_4_hire
GlenD
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Firedice, is that guys picture in the dictionary under ungrateful?

Good luck on getting the restaurant gig, I would like to land one around here somewhere for a night or possibly two a week.
Anyway, when asked by a fellow magician, "what do you do?", and you barely get a couple of words out and they are looking away or ignoring you. Whats the best way to answer this question?

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
RandyStewart
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Texas (USA)
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Quote:
On 2004-02-19 12:54, Firedice27 wrote:
And when I mentioned to him that I was interested in trying to get a restaurant gig, myself, he tried to tell me that this was kind of his turf, yet he still won't go get a gig!


Sounds like open season to me Firedice! Go get it and set a standard. You even seem to have a "character" or "persona" without trying. It works so get to it and much luck to you.
Reis O'Brien
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Seattle, WA
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Thanks for the vote of confidence fellas! I'm glad that you see my point. Sometimes I wondered if I was just being paranoid.
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur

http://www.myspace.com/liar_4_hire
Dorian Rhodell
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San Francisco, CA.
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I love this one!

Somebody will post a question about something here in the Café. It could be about a trick, move, book, history, whatever. A bunch of people will chime in and give advice. Some of it good and some of it not so good. Then along comes a post that totally blows you out of the water. Like do you guys remember when Paul Chosse pretty much gave the entire Café the TRUE HISTORY of EXPERT CARD TECHNIQUE by Hugard and Braue? I learned some killer stuff from those posts alone and I've known Paul forever! Anyway you get this great informative post and the post immediately after is something to the effect of, "I like the Underground Shift." No reason. No Content. No pros or cons to using that move over another. Just a one sentence response. To me it's one of the funniest things in here.

This is a good thread!

Best,

Dorian Rhodell
Mr. Ed
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I like the underground shift

Sorry Dorian I couldn't resist.

My pet peeve is that sometimes you will ask a person to critique a routine, or effect and they don't. What I mean is, you will show them a routine and expect a critique of, "Well you flashed here, that double was awkward", whatever. Instead you get, "Oh I love that trick, here this is how I do it." Of course they bumble through an unpracticed rendition of something they half did 5 years ago. That drives me nuts.
He who laughs, lasts.
NJJ
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Ed,
oh man, that is me all over, I always give advice like that Smile

I think my pet hates include:

#1: Magicians at conventions or forums who assume that because I'm young (24) I don't know jack. I've been doing magic for 20 years and I work fulltime! Sure, I can always learn more but I'm not an idiot!

#2: Magicians who are younger then me but are better then me! (Don’t worry; I get my own back by pretending they are idiots Smile )

#3: Geeky magicians who think they are cool. There seems to be a whole generation of guys who think that a good pass will get them a girlfriend!
Stevethomas
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I have a problem with other magicians and performers who, after they ask you about the latest thing you're working on and you show them a flawless routine or effect you've developed, take it upon themselves to start using said routine, and never even ask permission. Supposing you purchase an effect from a dealer, and that effect uses a standard item from a standard shop or store, and you've managed to incorporate that item into a routine of your own. They then go to the "regular" shop or store, buy the item, and start performing YOUR routine or effect.

Just what's on my mind, you asked.

Steve Thomas
Dorian Rhodell
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Well I guess it depends on what kind of pass is going to get you a girlfriend. Smile

I remember sitting in Vernon's corner over at the Magic Castle one evening. A magician (who shall remain nameless) was performing in the close up gallery that evening. He was by far the worst magician I had ever seen. Anyways, we were sitting in Vernon's corner and he started asking me to give him some basic pointers on the Diagonal Palm Shift. So I spent at least 40 min. with him going over all the little details that really make this move beautiful. The problem was that he couldn't even palm a card properly. Finally I had to stop and teach him how to properly palm a card. After another 20 min. or so he reverted to the old way that he was palming cards! I said, "What are you doing?" His reply was, "I like to palm cards this way." I almost jumped over the little marble table and killed him. There's another peeve for ya!

Best,

Dorian Rhodell

P.S. I like the Circle Shift.Smile
KerryJK
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That's the problem when you're teaching technique of any kind, you're trying to get someone to change their habits (as a singing teacher that's 80% of my job). They'll be used to their current ways of doing things and will not see the need to go to all the effort of changing unless you can explain patiently and convincingly why they should switch, by demonstrating things they cannot do the current way or by emphasizing all the cool new stuff that will open up to them if they can nail this small initial bit of technical work.

What was the matter with his palming beforehand? Was he flashing? Was his hand held in an unnatural, giveaway position? Was he fumbling/telegraphing? Whatever it is, the wrong way to make him change is to cry out, "What the @£%%£S's that?! That's the worst attempt at palming I've ever seen! You should do it this way, watch...". All this does is put him on the defensive and he'll be less inclined to think you worth listening to.
Instead, however bad he is, say, "That's a good way of doing it, but let me show you a few little tricks that'll open up some new possibilities for you." If it's in the context of teaching a new move, it's even easier, you just have to explain how certain flaws in his current technique will get in the way and make the trick harder, but if you train yourself to do this and this you can see the problem's solved. Then he knows you're on his side and there should be enough mutual respect for him to listen.
Letting people know exactly why they need to do things always speaks louder than, "'Cause I said so".
Dorian Rhodell
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I see what you are saying but if I said, "Hey that's a good way to do it but...", I would have been lying to him. The real problem was that he was lying to himself thinking that his method of palming was deceptive when it fact it was anything but. A close friend of mine refers to magic as "mutual admiration society." The downfall of mutual admiration is that no one will get anywhere. They become content and don't improve (as this guy had done). Either way, there is always a certain way to get your point across and making it known that you are there to help. But the fact is, when people constantly lie to themselves, their minds are closed off. They don't listen until they are ready to. By the way, I recently saw the same mentioned magician. He hadn't improved one bit. Too bad.

Best,

Dorian Rhodell
Dennis Michael
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Southern, NJ
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My pet peeve are people who are plants, or use aliases to post once on a particular product, thinking Café members are saps for believing this. Especially when they happen all in one or two days from each other.

My NON-Pet Peeve are those who sincerely help other members here and in our local clubs. Cheers to them!
Dennis Michael
Alan Gold
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Key West, FL
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Firedice, you may say this guy is a wonderful guy, but he sounds like a real **** head to me. I honestly don't know why you bother to help him when he obviously doesn't warrant it. Personally, I agree with the other poster who says it's open season. He may say the restaurant gig thing is his turf, but if he is sitting on his ass, it isn't. Besides, I imagine any restaurant manager would rather hire a magician who gives a flying fig than one who doesn't. I actually had you figured for a guy who did have a regular restaurant gig, from some of your postings, so I say go forth and prestidigitate. And if your buddy doesn't like it, well, you can always take his hate mail and crumple it up to line your car floor with. Of course, that would be poetic justice.

Nicholas, anyone who thinks you don't know what you are doing needs to hear two words: Joshua Jay. The dude is freakin' 21, and he blew me away when I saw him lecture in Phoenix. On the flip side of the coin, age is not the same thing as experience, in this or any other field. I am a professional magician now, but I did not pick up my first trick until I was 29. (I am 33.) So I still consider myself a novice, and have been floored by many people younger than me...and again, have seen many people much my senior who couldn't produce a rabbit if given a papa and mama rabbit to start with.

My pet peeve? Well, a fairly well known magician (who shall remain nameless) was down here at Frank's Magic Bar, and I watched his routine, and enjoyed it. I was looking forward to performing for this person, and getting some feedback. Well, when *I* got behind the bar, the magician in question proceeded to ignore me completely, paying all his attention to a girl he was hitting on (who had a boyfriend), and doing all of this loudly while I was trying to perform. We say may dumb drunk **** down here in the Keys, but I did not expect such behavior from an allegedly professional magician. Needless to say, I am not a fan of this walking fungus, and when I heard that his career had taken a downward turn, I raised my beer in toast. Sorry...being good at what you do, in this or any other profession, does not give you the right to be a complete and total ****.

:)

Alan


[Remember, Al G. is just another way of saying pond scum.]
Remember: Al G. is just another way to say pond scum.
El_Lamo
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My pet peeve...

Sometimes, I will post here at the Café asking for comments. It may be a very simple post, but I am truly looking for advice.

I live in a small town. This is my learning place. I may string a couple very elementary things together and ask, does this work.

I truly am looking for people to say things like, "The first part is too strong for the second. Or - the effect seems dodgier now."

It is tricky because the subject matter might better suit “New To Magic”, but it would be disclosure in that forum.

Sigh… If I wanted to just speak into a void, I would just go have a discourse with my composter in the backyard.

Cheers - El Lamo
Life is a system of circumstance presented coincidently in an illusory way.
Alan Gold
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Key West, FL
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Quote:
It is tricky because the subject matter might better suit “New To Magic”, but it would be disclosure in that forum.

Question… As I am new to the Café, I am not sure I get the rules about disclosure. Are you allowed in one part of the Café to talk shop, but not in another? I ask because I do like to talk shop, and trade ideas, sometimes including specifics, but do not want to violate any codes, ethics, rules, regulations, bylaws, treaties, contracts, copyrights, trademarks, national borders, or NCAA guidelines. So, where, if anywhere in here, can we get "down and dirty"? And I am not talking about mud wrestling, so get your minds off the barroom floor.

:)

Alan
Remember: Al G. is just another way to say pond scum.
James F
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Atlanta
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You can speak more freely about methods in the Secret Sessions. You get access to it once you have 50 posts.

James
Reis O'Brien
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Well, I have another story. A friend of mine, who has always proven to be a great spec for me to try stuff out on, finally took it into his head that he wanted to try magic, too. So he got some cards and we sat down and I showed him some basics. And what does this dork do? He goes to a local gag shop, that has a small section of magic stuff, and buys a TV Magic stripper deck and a small pad of flash paper. And now that's all he does. He strips out a chosen card and then lights some flash paper in his hand. Wow. What a show. He hasn't even practice, nor do I think he even remembers some of the moves I showed him. If this wasn't bad enough, he went and had some business cards printed claiming himself to be a "Professional Migician". Egads. Kill me. Kill me now.
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur

http://www.myspace.com/liar_4_hire
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