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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts |
Bravo! Someone has studied Ron Bauer and his booklets. Keep it going Tom
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MuscleMagic Special user 794 Posts |
Great handling, great ricky jay like patter
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FoggFactor Regular user Texas 189 Posts |
My honest thoughts:
When I saw the video was nearly 5 minutes, I cringed a little and thought this would be boring. HOWEVER I enjoyed your performance. The patter felt natural and unrehearsed, the moves were justified and everything felt comfortable. I do have a couple suggestions: 1 When you say "I can turn these cards face down and conserve some energy"...why do the cards being facedown help conserve energy? I suggest removing this line and just turning them facedown. Maybe you say "Let's set the conditions. You can still do the necessary moves and sleights to get the cards where you need them. 2 Your flip flop shuffle (hoping that's the correct name of the move-I learned it from Jay Sankey) is spot on, man. I love the squaring of the cards at the end. This really sells it. And I think that's all you need. You don't need to do the typical Triumph face-up cards here, face down cards here and oh look! even some back to back cards. This is redudant and over proving; you want the last image in their mind to be that sloppy square up you do...not a clean cut deck. You can work the needed move into the tabled square up also. Hope that helps. Very entertained by the routine. If I need to eleborate on anything, let me know or just shoot me a PM! Happy to help! |
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Thanks FoggFactor, glad you enjoyed the trick. Here's my input on your input...
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2015, FoggFactor wrote: Granted this comment doesn't make sense when you scrutinize it, but it holds true to the premise and unity of the narrative. Quote:
2 Your flip flop shuffle (hoping that's the correct name of the move-I learned it from Jay Sankey) is spot on, man. I love the squaring of the cards at the end. This really sells it. And I think that's all you need. You don't need to do the typical Triumph face-up cards here, face down cards here and oh look! even some back to back cards. This is redudant and over proving; you want the last image in their mind to be that sloppy square up you do...not a clean cut deck. You can work the needed move into the tabled square up also. The squaring finesse at the end is Ron Bauer's. Here's some interesting history that Ron got directly from Vernon and shared with me. The trick now known as "Triumph" originated with Sid Lorraine. His trick, which included the first description of the Slop Shuffle (Sid called the "Slop Shuffle" the "Merry Mixup") was published in 1937 in "Subtle Problems You Will Do" by Stewart Judah and John Braun. A more popular source is "The Royal Road to Card Magic" by Jean Hugard and Frederick Braue. Lorraine's trick was republished (without credit) in that book as "A Tipsy Trick." When Dai Vernon contributed "Triumph" to "Stars of Magic," he submitted a false shuffle that could be used " To Maintain the Order of the Reds and Blacks" or "To Maintain the Order of the Entire Pack." The trick associated with the shuffle, along with the presentation, was added by the "photographic interpreter," George Karger, and the editor, George Starke! If you look at the photographs in "Stars of Magic..." The cards in EVERY photograph for "Triumph" are ALL face down. If Vernon was demonstrating a trick in which half the deck was FACE UP, wouldn’t he have shown it in the photographs? Vernon came up with the false shuffling technique... The rest was added by Karger and Starke.
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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MagicT Inner circle New Orleans 1248 Posts |
Thank you for the history. How are you doing Tom?
Trini
Trini Montes
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FoggFactor Regular user Texas 189 Posts |
Enjoyed reading the origins of the move. Thanks!
And on the patter, I always try to streamline and remove any continuity errors or confusing moments. I think it is fine either way, but from a logic standpoint, you could eliminate the reasoning you give and change it to "let's set the conditions." Either way, great routine! Would love to see a live performance! |
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 6, 2015, MagicT wrote: Good Trini! How have you been?
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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trent_hardcore New user 92 Posts |
I think there's too much time between the effect and the reveal. The ace is turned face down and then isn't inserted into the deck for ages. The red/black cards are mixed but aren't revealed to be separated for a long time either. The mixing and separating should happen relatively quickly for maximum impact.
I really liked where you tried to square the deck thus revealing it's chaotic nature, but I think it went on a few beats too long. |
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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
Long for sure, but it's storytelling and four different effects at once... I thought it was great. I'm just worried that the combination of those four effects packs less wows than the sum of all them separately: while the plot is clear, there is too much happening between each shuffling procedure and its reset.
P! |
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trent_hardcore New user 92 Posts |
That's what I thought, Ado. A long(ish) trick isn't necessarily bad, but the effects are too spread out and not as powerful as they would be individually. I cannot stress enough though how important it is to have the magic happen quickly compared to the setup. It's not good showing six red/black mixed together and then waiting a whole minute before showing them separated.
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 7, 2015, trent_hardcore wrote: I don't find this to be the case in performances for the public. Since they're trying to figure out the trick they watch like hawks and are able to keep track. This is not a trick I'd do in certain situations, but in the right venue it's a killer.
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Nice effect but the presentation was way to long in my opinion.
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
It's a great effect, and you do it well. A few suggestions:
1. I don't think the presentation is too long. After you have more experience performing this for real people, you might want to take Ron Bauer script, and write it out word for word, separate from the description of how to do the effect. Then, go through the script and strip away everything that's non-essential. This will give you the 'script skeleton.' Then, you can add some bits back that make it feel more like yours. 2. Replace the business card portion of the trick with a card that's personalized specifically for you. (Perhaps I'lll post a picture of my card some time later.) 3. The biggest criticism is the blocking. From the video, it appears that you're performing the trick for you, not for your audience. From your point of view, the action proceeds from left to right, but from the audience's view, it goes from right to left. Re-block it so that you swap the position of the Ace of Spades and the Sloppy Shuffle cards. The Ace of Spadees is right side up from your point of view, but upside down from the audience's point of view. Turn that Ace 180 degrees. Finally, when you turn up the Ace, turn it so that the audience can see it. 4. One last thing. The visibility of the trick is fine if you're seated at the table. Work out another version that will work with you standing at the table instead. Change all the displays so that they can be seen in a parlor magic setting. (Obviously, if you never perform in this type of setting, this doesn't apply.)
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
Tom Gaddis wrote in reference to turning some cards down:
Quote:
Granted this comment doesn't make sense when you scrutinize it, but it holds true to the premise and unity of the narrative. Why show the cards face up and say that those are the "original conditions" and then rationalize a change of conditions? Why not just turn the middle packet and the Ace of Spades down and say that those are the "original conditions"? |
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gilbreath76 Loyal user 279 Posts |
Personally, I would change the handling of the business card portion. Add more cards to it so you have a thick stack and perform a standard DL. Or, do it with the playing cards. That's the one part a spectator can probably figure out what you did since you were managing only two cards and put one to the side. Which then makes them doubt the rest of the routine even though they have no clue.
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Quote:
1. I don't think the presentation is too long. After you have more experience performing this for real people, you might want to take Ron Bauer script, and write it out word for word, separate from the description of how to do the effect. Then, go through the script and strip away everything that's non-essential. This will give you the 'script skeleton.' Then, you can add some bits back that make it feel more like yours. For now I'll ignore the condescending comment on performing experience and address changing the script to "make it feel more like yours." Think about this... several different actors are known for how they played Hamlet. They've won Oscar's and other awards. None of them changed the words to Shakespeare's script to "make it feel more like theirs." This idea that it's bad to follow a script written by someone else is why magicians have to harass people on the street and Hollywood movies pull in hundred's of millions of dollars. Quote:
2. Replace the business card portion of the trick with a card that's personalized specifically for you. (Perhaps I'lll post a picture of my card some time later.) The card is personalized to me. It has my name printed on it. You just can't see it in the video. Quote:
3. The biggest criticism is the blocking. From the video, it appears that you're performing the trick for you, not for your audience. From your point of view, the action proceeds from left to right, but from the audience's view, it goes from right to left. Re-block it so that you swap the position of the Ace of Spades and the Sloppy Shuffle cards. The Ace of Spadees is right side up from your point of view, but upside down from the audience's point of view. Turn that Ace 180 degrees. Finally, when you turn up the Ace, turn it so that the audience can see it. I'd love to see a video of your handling. Please post so I can compare. P.S. I always find a reference to "real people" amusing.
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Quote:
I really liked where you tried to square the deck thus revealing it's chaotic nature, but I think it went on a few beats too long. How long does a beat last?
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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Tom Gaddis Regular user Maui 143 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 8, 2015, gilbreath76 wrote: I did use a DL.
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
YOU COULD OF DID A CLOSE UP SHOW AT THE MAGIC CASTLE WITH THAT ONE EFFECT.. But I enjoyed you and the patter and the effect
good job vinny |
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