I would like some advice for folding a 4"x9" streamer so hit unrolls when tossed in a nice manner.
are they normally rolled or accordion folded? When I have tried either I have not seen a nice effect. That is, when I roll it it seems to get /slow stuck torwards the end and accordion fold seems to just spring open as a mass so does not go out very far. I would like an upward toss and a arc downward.

Does rolled need a weight or is it just how wide you pleat it or something else. How long can it stay in that position before it presses/creases or slows down from being folded. That is, how long is it moral to have such a streamer set?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Powermagic,

I think a weight will help you immensely.
Is the streamer 4 inches wide by 9 FEET long?
I am not sure what you have because of the way you wrote the dimensions above.

But if it is 9 feet long, and you have a weight that is 4" wide ... you can roll the whole silk around the weight and it will stay that way indefinitely without causing wrinkles or slowing down the opening of it.

Yes sorry 9' 3 Meter ish

What is is the right weight so it does not just drop it to the floor or but excess tension. I have usually seen it sort of float now .
How is the weight attached?

Nine feet is to short to get much action out of cascading a silk streamer. I would suggest you buy another and sew them together. A small weight would help to get to the floor, or dump box, but you have to test what weight would work best. I don't think it has to be four inches wide, just a small lead weight attached to the end edge.

The accordion pleat works best, and should be laid out flat on the prop you are using. Such as a Dove Pan, the pan should be large enough so the width fits flat. Then Zig Zag the streamer back and forth onto it's self.

No you can take the end and toss it upward in a arch movement. Raise the arm holding the container high. Now the streamer will dance out over the top. You can put a few pieces of tissue confetti between the folds and it will shower about. This goes very fast, so you may even have to attach another streamer to get the dancing effect.

It is not coming from a container. It is being tossed by hand. I don't want it to "drop" to the floor. I want it to unroll fully at the end. It appears to slow down and I have seen others just seem to open nicer.
They don't seem to accordion fold.
When I tried, it springs open sot if fast and messy not a streak/arc

Try just a paper clip on the end. If that is enough weight to get the effect you are looking for, just straighten out a paper clip, sew into the end hem of the streamer and roll around it. Also, where Bill is coming from, a combination of accordion pleat folding half the streamer and rolling the other half may also work for you. The roll starts off slowly and then the accordion ending shoots out quickly. You just have to experiment to get the right proportions for the length of streamer you are using. Happy practicing. I like to throw mine at the TV when the news is on.

You don't want to use lead for this, lead is toxic.

-Mary Mowder

I believe they still make fishing weights of lead, they are the size of a BB, and they would not sell them if they were that dangerous. Just don't eat them.

In my parents house the made pluming pipes out of lead to be able to been them in the walls. That is why lead and lead paint was taken out of those products. Kids were eating the paint on window seals, and drinking water out of lead pipes.

My father re-plumbed our old house to all copper pipes.

It is always good to learn the history of things not being used any longer and the reasons behind them. Just like old cooking pans and pots.

In a hundred years we will find out that plastic containers will kill us, and we go back to something or, or a new product that we will find out in years to come is also not good for humans.

It is all about making profit, not what is right for the consumer.

I never seen a silk streamer cascade from the hand, just from apparatus. Usually, ribbon and Mylar ribbon was used for hand productions. Just guessing from my experience, I would say, that your problem would be with the use of a 4" wide streamer. The smaller 2" would most likely produce better results.

Are you holding your hand palm up, or in a fist?

What make the arch and dancing effect is hitting the side of the container, so being you have nothing that the ribbon can bounce against, I would think that is why you are not getting the effect you desire.

Also if it is not falling far enough, this will impact the arch and dancing effect. How far are you letting the streamer travel before it lands on a surface?

Sew penny in the end or even a small dowel rod. You can load a streamer with a Rosini winder so it becomes a hand streamer.
I had worked on a multiple streamer production from the hands but never go more done with it it. but it certainly is a viable idea.

Richard

Bill 3-4" is common now.

Like this but I am not using gloves.
https://youtu.be/o-Mba_cElzE?t=36
Or https://youtu.be/X6XzGc1atB8?t=25
Orhttps://youtu.be/S0njsG1W4GU?t=4

Note the steamers do not seem to drop from a heavy weight. I don't see a accordion fold do you?


When I do it without any weight it starts like that but then loses speed and the end foot or so is still rolled, if accordion fold, it sort of just pops open in an odd way. Nothing like the videos.

I did try a paper clip. seems that could be it. However it could have been I rolled too tight.
Maybe the videos will show those experienced what they are doing.

Okay, this is what in magic is called a "Throw Streamer". Most use the paper models. The 2nd China video is a copy of Tony Clark's trick Black and White Gloves to Zibra streamer. I use to have it.

The ends of the last to do have to be weighted a little. Not very heavy as you found out with a paper clip. The last video is simply a roll. They are all a little different, but the throw is the same. Also you need to hang onto the end in some manner, clip it between the fingers with a clip attached to the silk or as the 1st two, attach to a knitted glove.

It come down to your technique. I explained this in one of my posts in this section a while back. What you have to do is Throw and then freeze the hand and arm. You do not make any kind of backward jerk or pull, if you do, it destroys the path of the silk. Sort of locking your hand and arm once you open your hand. The ark is controlled or made by the way you throw the silk. The angle of the launch makes the ark. Follow the path of the steamer and do not move until it is fully completed it's path. The last 2 are rolled.

The 1st one is different, the person is Sam Sandler, he is a member here and a working magician. I do not think it is right to discussing his tricks or techniques here on the Café. You could PM him and see if he wishes to share. I will say his is the best in my opinion because it is sort of like a fireworks display, traveling up and bursting in a show of confetti, looks really good.

Practice the throw and it should work for you, to find the technique.

Karl Germain and General Grant used rolled ribbons to throw out. They are a heavier statin ribbon which allows the weight of the rolled ribbon to pull the ribbon out when thrown.
Richard

I don't see Sam Snadler looking any different than the others. Sam has posted many times that he suggests confetti.
Bill, What makes you think the other guys are not working magicians? Why do you hold Mr. Sandler any higher? if you believe it was Clark's, how does changing the glove and streamer color make it ok? That is borderline racist.

It matters not what was knocked off . THAT WAS Not the POINT. Some of you guys could not understand what I was talking about so I provided you with 3 video examples.

Most hate kingmagic and their theft but that does not mean the people they feature are not working magicians on magic competition shows or other shows that feature magicians, It is quite common in Asia. They steal the clips of others doing magic they copy so don't assume , Bill , that they work for King Magic or are aware they steal. I am sure most in Asia never heard of Clark so probably would buy gloves to streamer , assuming it is a stock trick over there
So either way, don't fault the performers that KingMagic is grabbing and overlaying their name over. You should apologize for making such comments.

I don't think Clark INVENTED gloves to streamer. I could be wrong. But gloves to other things has been around before Clark.


Sandlers is surely rolled if not in whole in part. My experiments show that accordion just does not act like that when released. You don't get the arc; all three are the same in my opinion.

I was rolling mine small to be compact so initially think I had too many rolls and even with clip, it is too much. Maybe I would need heavier weight for that.
I do fear it is a bit loose for easy stealing.

I like the ribbons but due to size and thickness, probably not what I am looking for. I would lean towards a Kabuki streamer for that purpose. This is different use.
But yes, I can see how the heavier ribbon would act that way.

Not to muddy the already unclear waters of this 'discussion', but the reality is... that the 'inspiration' for Tony Clark's effect of gloves to streamer was when Tony saw me do a 18" white silk to 15 foot white ribbon in 1985. I debuted this trick on a tour of Canada and Tony saw me sometime thereafter at the Magic Castle. He enquired as to me selling him the rights to market the effect and I wasn't ready to sell it at that time. Based on the video clips shown here...they all appear derivative of my original idea. Since Sandler appears to be 30 years or younger (lucky him!), I KNOW I was doing this before he was , and I've already related the Tony Clark history.. .which he would confirm the details What was original with me was transforming one object into a similar appearing streamer or ribbon.

I of course was familiar with it's antecedents, particularly in the Flag of all Nations effect as done by Germain. Silk ribbons were produced in a similar tossing out motion that led to fan arrays of national flags. So I don't claim originality for throwing out ribbons, which is the underlying subject of discussion here. For the record, my ribbon streamer was a polyester satin ribbon about 3.5" wide by 15 feet long. the material itself had enough weight in itself to allow it to extend fully without adding anything. By the way, Yes, I did use confetti at the end of the streamer when I first did this in 1985.

I later played around with variants including one where I made a Kabuki type streamer of the same ribbon although it was much narrower: 12 pieces of 15 foot ribbon , with each piece being 1/2" wide. This meant that I could create the Kabuki streamer but in a reusable form.... but what a nuisance to rewind! In "Spellbound in Africa", a show I did in 1986/87 in South Africa, I used 4 colored streamers (2 in each hand) of 3" width and 15 feet long, for a spectacular lead in to a silk production to close my act. So now you have the real background on this effect.

Using lighter weight silk means that the roll tends not to want to extend fully. That is why the Kabuki streamers have small aluminum pieces that the paper is rolled around. I would
recommend a light weight item at the end of the silk streamer; a piece of 1/8" wood dowel, or something similar to do the job.

Regards-

J.Neal

Sorry, I tried to help you now. I have my reason's, and don't have to defend what I wrote. You are correct, Tony Clark did not invent the Gloves to Streamer. You'll find something you like, that's all.

J Neal
Yes I would rather use Kabuki streamers as I am not looking for the multi strand effect. Nor do I want to roll 3 or more ribbons over and over. It is worth it to me to by kabuki for those routines that require it .

I have a different purpose and need to use silk in this case. I just want to be able to get one streamer like you see on the videos unfold as clean. I just wrongly assumed it would happen on its own.
Playing more with the paper clip. NOt really having consistent luck. Even the paper clip seems to drop it too fast and the rolls are getting stuck at the end.

I wonder what the best width for rolling is? THat is, if one was folding into a packet but not folding it flat, how wide would that be to have to unfold all the way?

I just don't think those videos have something to to heavy since I don't see it drop.

I just figured it was a method or technique that was common. I was trying to shorten the trial and error process by asking so as not to reinvent the wheel.
I'll keep playing with it.
Thanks

BTW if you ever look at most kabuki streamer ends. quite a bit does not unroll around the aluminum.
Howvever the examples do show full winding.