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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » "I can't show you a proper demo... (22 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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robd
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...because then you'll work out how it's done".

Am I the only one who raises an eyebrow at this? That new 'Fly' trick has this at the start of the 'demo', and then shows *nothing* of the effect. I sort of feel that if when you show it to me I can work out exactly how it's done, maybe it's not that great a trick to be selling?
TheDirectionalist
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I completely disagree with this. Just because it won't fool a magician doesn't mean it isn't a good effect.

If it's entertaining to your audience, then it's a good effect.
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robd
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I'm not saying it's not a good effect; more that perhaps (perhaps) it's not worth selling. Unless there's a tonne of presentational tips, etc.

But like I say, it's more an eyebrow raise. Fly by Geraint Clarke shows nothing of the effect at all - literally just the end. You could be buying anything.
JoelDickinson
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I know what you mean however disagree too. Sometimes when magic is performed it's much stronger for a real audience and a video demo may well reveal the method to a magician watching, after all we have knowledge of mechanics, sleights and so on. In this day and age I notice many videos with full demos get ripped apart by magicians, including hints towards methodology. This is ofcourse the reason why a full demo isn't super however it doesn't help you.

What is it which raises your eye brow?
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TuneHV
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I get why they do trailers like that... but no way I'll pay for it without knowing what it is
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robd
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Quote:
On Aug 12, 2015, JoelDickinson wrote:

What is it which raises your eye brow?


I should be a bit clearer. Of course there are tonnes of great tricks where you can work out how they're done by rewinding and replaying the video again and again, or because you can't misdirect a camera, etc. And in those cases it makes perfect sense to cut out some aspects of the trick in order to avoid exposure. It's also an aspect of selling magic in the modern world - so much is sold by video, and I come from an era where you learnt from books where that wasn't an issue. And there's a lot of 'buying an effect, not buying a method/thinking/background behind a trick, etc'. To be contrary, I've just bought Chris Rawlings drawing duplication with no demo at all. So I'm not quite sure where that leaves me.

Anyway - in this instance, I'm thinking particularly about this trick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4lboMBLMr4

Literally nothing is shown, because 'you'll reverse engineer it', plus there's no written description of the effect either. This seems quite a cop-out, no?
DynaMix
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I agree fully with the OP.

Also we should take the disagreements with a grain of salt if they are coming from creators/sellers of material.

From the consumer perspective I'd just rather see no video than one that is as useless as the above.

The real problem is just that magic is in a state where creators can get away with this. They'll still move units because we don't really demand better. Magic purchasers, particularly novice ones, will always be drawn to "hype" .
DynaMix
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Also there are certainly a few ways to accomplish this effect with pure sleight of hand.
A great method for a "mental" selection (non signed) is a favorite routine of mine off the True Astonishments collection by Paul Harris.
robd
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Rawlins, not Rawlings. Sorry Kris. I mean, Chris.
JoelDickinson
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I too come from the same era, I was a young subscriber to Abra Magazine. Davenports catalogue, magic by post and a JB Magic catalogue was my internet at the time.
I agree the trailer doesn't show much and I haven't clicked the link to read anything just yet but I remember ordering some complete junk twenty years ago. I read about an amazing magic trick where you strike a match and it turns into a flower when you blow it out - the reality was much different.

I once bought a matchbox which could predict any number thought of by a participant, I kid you not. The advert said you ask a participant to think of any number and then you open a matchbox to reveal the number a participant thought of. The reality was a lot different too and for those who suckered in will know what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying this effect is on that level at all. It could be a really good effect, maybe the people marketing this are leaving it to curiosity. After all I once ordered on the back of curiosity only the outcome left me disgruntled and whining about it twenty years later...

Grrrrr!
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IAIN
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Surely though, a lot of the older adverts were just as, if not more misleading?

all you had to go on was ad copy - and that's about as much use as a chocolate teapot at times...

no wires
no wax
no monkey
no funk
no style

and then the rest was full of wonders upon wonders...

so you'd buy it, and then cry when it was a badly painted piece of cheap plastic and a pin, glued badly to a playing card or something...
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Hey Rob

I see your frustration, but I do explain why, and what the effect is in the trailer. (Feel free to watch it again and listen to me explain/watch snippets of the performance).

It's a signed card transpo / sandwich routine, put simply. With 2 original sleights taught that make it clean as HELL and fooling. No flashes on our footage (as those who buy it will attest to, as they'll see the full performances), but some people will watch it 10x and work it out.

The truth in publishing magic is, that there are some people out there (not you) that reverse-engineer a full performance after watching it many times to guess the method and save themselves the money. I understand it, but it's a shame.

For this reason, magic companies have to make fancy trailers to show enough of the effect to get you fooled, but not too much that you don't have to pay for it. Magicians see things that Laymen never will.

This is a worker. An effect designed, performed and perfected over the last 8 years, and for anyone that's bought my material over the years; Devious, Non-Toxic, Extra Extra, Eden Project, Latch, Revolt .. they consistently tell me how much they've loved it, and how it's a steal for that price.

I don't publish anything that's not been worked for YEARS.

It didn't make sense for me to go jumping around London, as this effect is a true performance piece, and not a visual flicker of magic. The download teaches 2 original sleights that let you achieve a 1 second deception, allowing you to concentrate on a powerful 2-3 minute performance.

I 100% stand by it, and the reviews are pouring in already. With big name magicians like Josh Jay, Greg Wilson, Daniel Garcia, Jeff McBride and more giving me praise over the years for it's mechanics.

"...You cheeky ******* ! That's terrific!"
-Greg Wilson (Asked me to teach him after not catching it after his Cardiff Magic Society lecture)

" Aww man, that's awesome."
- Daniel Garcia (Asked if I could quote him on it at Blackpool Magic Convention)

" Wow! That's real nice."
- Joshua Jay (Shown to Josh after his 2008 Cardiff Magic Society Lecture)

" Excellent! I love it."
- Jeff McBride (Shown to Jeff at Blackpool Magic Convention)

I understand if you want to pass on it this time, but for anyone that does take the plunge for $7, and trusts me and my back-catalogue of past best-sellers on E or other magic sites. I can tell you that you'll LOVE the effect, have fun performing it and leave your audiences blown away.

Here's a screenshot of the review page. Anything that's come in for Fly has been posted and it's all 5 star (Apart from the 2 that were deleted from non-verified buyers that said "your trailer shows nothing, I'm not buying it" (images attached)

Check the product page here to see those reviews and more as they come in : http://www.ellusionist.com/fly-by-geraint-clarke.html

Many thanks for the thread,

- G.
mysticalsales
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I totally agree with Rob. I also watched the video today and really didn't even know what the routine was by the time the trailer was done. I know Cameron Francis does this type of editing too, but he at least shows the layout of the routine and excludes the sleights.
GeraintClarke
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Quote:
On Aug 12, 2015, mysticalsales wrote:
I totally agree with Rob. I also watched the video today and really didn't even know what the routine was by the time the trailer was done. I know Cameron Francis does this type of editing too, but he at least shows the layout of the routine and excludes the sleights.


Please see my post above Smile Hope that helps.
DynaMix
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At $7 I think it's great to even get a video (but it would be nice to see more detail) - I normally wouldn't expect one. I didn't realize the price was so low.

Good luck with the release.
Doomo
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Gee. For years I have worked hard to make sure ALL my demos were NO camera cuts, edits, tricky angles and such. The old line " This is how it looks to the audience..." is used to cover a multitude of weaknesses. To my mind that is usually a sign to keep walking.

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TheDirectionalist
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Quote:
On Aug 12, 2015, DynaMix wrote:
I agree fully with the OP.

Also we should take the disagreements with a grain of salt if they are coming from creators/sellers of material.

From the consumer perspective I'd just rather see no video than one that is as useless as the above.

The real problem is just that magic is in a state where creators can get away with this. They'll still move units because we don't really demand better. Magic purchasers, particularly novice ones, will always be drawn to "hype" .

You realize even though I release material I still purchase effects from time to time so it doesn't make my opinion any less valid..

I don't expect to see demo videos, nor does it truly impact my decision because half of them are heavily edited anyways. I think if the effect is described well enough in the ad copy, then that's enough for me.

If they give no info, then I agree that's no good.
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Mejais
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I got it, since I liked Non-toxic from Geraint and thought: why not its only 7$.

So first of all: I had no clue what to expect.

After watching the full performance I thought this: its a cool routine. Nothing more nothing less. You can definitly walk around with this and get some great reactions. Its also really easy to do and would fit my style: I like easy straight forward magic.

The routine goes like this: You have 4 aces in your hands, spectator chooses a card, signs it (the method on how its signed is unpractical for me tbh, I really don't like the way it is handled here), you let the spectator choose their color "red or black aces?", you put their card in sandwich between their choosen aces, you do the same with the other spectator and abrahkadabra the card transpos and their card is gone.


So what is my rating for the trick? Not sure tbh. I expected "special magic", like Geraint did with Latch and Non-Toxic (I use non toxic all the time). In the end its just a card trick. It is definitly not "oh my god you need to buy this it is sooooo good you will use only this in the rest of your life". But it is definitly not wasted money and "overhyped ****".

If you want a cool routine to fool spectators this is something for you. If you already have enough routines, you don't need to buy this.

In the end its 7$ for 2 sleights, which are definitly usable in other tricks.

EDIT: rating is 7/10 and definitly positiv! I will use this trick
cheesewrestler
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Quote:
On Aug 12, 2015, robd wrote:
...because then you'll work out how it's done".

Am I the only one who raises an eyebrow at this? That new 'Fly' trick has this at the start of the 'demo', and then shows *nothing* of the effect. I sort of feel that if when you show it to me I can work out exactly how it's done, maybe it's not that great a trick to be selling?


Probably a mistake to mention a specific product. Distracts readers from your very valid point.

I agree 100% that "I can't show you a performance video because then you'll know how it's done" is a red flag.

I actually once read a review in one of the magic magazines where the reviewer wouldn't even tell what the effect WAS "because that would reveal the method". Incredible.
M Sini
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I watched the demo earlier today. I get that it's a transposition effect but there are many signed card transposition effects...many of which have a trailer showing the actual trick...not just the reactions.
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