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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
Den,
Thanks for the plug. I just want to correct one thing about the Success In Magic books. The Pre-Release Download Special for $97 which you took advantage of has ended. I now offer it in printed form. You get three, three ring binders, plus four audio CDs, a data CD and free coaching. Anyone interested should email me for the correct promotional discount code or with any questions they may have. The realities of going pro? The same as any business startup. You need clear vision (this thread contains much wisdom), specific strategies for marketing and business development, and concrete actions. Most small businesses fail within their first five years. But it can be done, even without a rich (or even employed) wife! Sure, every time I write a $2000 check for my quarterly health insurance payment, I wish my wife had a job with benefits. But when I see how my daughter is growing up, I know we made the right choice. Besides, it forces me to work harder! |
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Dr Magic Regular user Sparks, NV 154 Posts |
Q: What's the difference between a magician and a pizza?
A: A pizza can feed a family of four. Besides corporate and cruise ship workers, very few are making a "good" living. Magicians are artists and artists are generally starving. I suppose that's what the rabbit is for, just in case Dr Magic |
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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
If you just want to be an artist, there is a good chance you will be a starving one, but that doesn't have to be your fate. There are many fine artists who are able to earn a good living from their art. There are even a few who manage to get rich. But that is true in any field.
There are several other markets besides corporate and cruise ships where a pro can earn a good living (actually cruises aren't really all that lucrative). School, colleges, conventions, and theaters all offer opportunities for magicians. Not only do you need a solid, commercial act, but you need the business acumen to build a successful business practice in your chosen markets. If you don't have those elements you will have a difficult time. But if you don't have skills and knowledge in any chosen field, your opportunities will be severely limited. |
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shamanicmagi New user 1 Post |
Mr., or is that Dr. Snack knows his stuff. I have had the opportunity to meet him one to one. He is the real deal.
Of course, Mr. Dee and Mr. Charach are the real deal too, but alas I have not met them in person. My humble advice; which like all advice here in the Café is worth the paper it's printed on , is to invest in Mr. Smack's, Dee's, Charach's and anyone else's marketing courses I am missing, as the total cost is less than a few decent bookings. Remember in the words of Woody Allen, "Those who cannot do, teach. Those who cannot teach, teach gym, and those who don't have shows, post." |
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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
Sorry, there is no PhD after my name, so Mr. Snack is fine; actually I prefer Jim. Perhaps I'll go back to grad school someday, but right now I have to earn that "good living" we all dream about.
Jim |
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peterng25 New user 90 Posts |
While reading this post, it suddenly occurred to me that one of the greatest net successes dealing with a very small special interest group is the very forum we're browsing!
It's a great example that magic can succeed anywhere, if one knows how. But I guess that know-how might be part magical. :cool: |
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waveman New user 78 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-02-25 21:54, Jon Gallagher wrote: WOW! That was a total eye opener and an answer to one of the questions rolling around in the back of my head. One of those big DUH moments too, it is so logical. waveman |
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waveman New user 78 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-02-26 11:30, Stuart Hooper wrote: Too True Bill Gates sold IBM his great operating system, and it didn't even exist. Then he bought it off a guy for $400.00, good thing he didn't spend that money on pencils and pens. |
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FullTimer New user 5 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-02-25 12:00, silverfire9 wrote: Don't know, and I don't know how helpful this kind of information is, but I can tell you how I've done in the last year: I've earned $22,700 in wages from my regular gig plus shows. In addition, I've earned $26,238 in tips. My average in tips per night is $134.55, and I've worked 195 nights at this gig, normally six straight hours a night. So, my total take for a little over one year (about 13 months) is just under $50K. Of course, this is gross, and there are adjustments for taxes, insurance, etc. The thing is, I've just started working as a full-time pro a little over a year ago, so I'm still learning, and I expect to see an increase in income as I do more shows and other events. I figure within the next three years, I should be able to double my yearly income. Can everyone do this? Probably not. It depends on where you are and your given situation. However, I fully believe that if a person goes into magic for the money, he or she is simply nuts. Salary is the WORST motivation for pursuing any entertainment or artistic endeavor. You sell your soul to a corporation for the money; you become a lawyer for the money; you become an upper-level politician for the money (and perks). But you only become a magician because you love it. You do it because you have to. You do it because doing anything else will always bother you until you at least try it. And if you love it enough, you'll stick with it no matter how poorly it pays. That's the only reason to become a magician: because you have no other choice. |
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blwrjw Regular user The Top of the Mountains 177 Posts |
This thread is loaded with important info. I have a powerful urge to quote and comment like crazy, but I'll cover all that by saying that anyone who *really* wants to get a handle on this should read and reread the whole thread.
So who do I think *I* am? Well I'm not a pro magician. In fact, all my performances have been free. But... I have a degree in business; I *did* make many of the same mistakes and discoveries discussed in this thread when I worked hard for three years to go pro in the music biz (the joke about whether a magician can feed a family of four goes *double* for musicians); I was self-employed during the internet boom... I currently work a factory job. It's a good job and, although it's slow, we are upwardly mobile. I have enough free time to pursue magic and entertain people with it. Is that a success story? You decide. I would *love* to go pro. Maybe some day I will. Probably not for a while though. Even if I do, the multiple revenue streams concept that has already been discussed will be an integral part of the plan, not only for the reasons previously mentioned, but because my wife really likes the idea of owning some rental property. For what it's worth... Barry
...before you go rushing off to show your friends a new field of miracles, you should get well acquainted with tools of the trade.
-- Tony Corinda One can never have enough socks... -- Albus Dumbledore |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Here is the reality of being a pro. A pro is like owing a corporation.
The Pro needs a vison, a game plan, and the finances to back him in hard times. A pro cannot survive, nor can a corporation without an advertising plan, a marketing plan, and a good product or service. A Vision is a statement on what it is you want to accomplish. Included is your Target Market Goals are reasonable broad based concepts of what it is you want to do. Your Strategy is a more detailed list of what needs to be done to to Accomplish your goals. Your Tactics are the specic ACTION oriented TASKS that need to be done to acomplish the Strategies. These include Advertising Tools, Promotional Tools and Services. Not included, are actions related to Health Benefits, Pension Plan, Insurance Plan, Club Membership Plan, Continuing Education Plan, and Disability Plan. I know I left some things out, however, there is more to going full-time pro than just saying this is what one wants to do.
Dennis Michael
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Incredible... Simply incredible...
This stands out as one of THE MOST IMPORTANT threads EVER in these forums for anyone wanting to make any amount of success or money with their Magic, pro or no-pro! I'm sincerely humbled and thankful for all the info given here... Freely at that, I might add... Thank you so very much everyone...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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KerryJK Special user Northampton UK 621 Posts |
Bit of a ramble coming, but maybe some of it might be relevant:
I've always been self employed by default, because no-one'd ever give me a regular job (I think it was the wrestler Jackie Pallo, or possibly his son, who said that if you're naturally extrovert there's only a few things you can do, you can't work in a bank). I also look >really< shifty in a suit and noticed that the amount of acceptance I received from people was in inverse proportion to the effort I made to fit in. Try to fit in = disaster every time. But the more I just be myself and perform, the more people are nice to me. Funny, that. Anyway, from my early teens I was a semi-professional musician through school and college, and full time pro after that, doing cocktail piano, function bands, band tours, musicals and compostition commissions. I can vouch entirely for the fact that actually playing music was a tiny part of the job, and felt like the bit I did for free. The rest of my time was taken up setting up work, filing invoices, sitting in vans travelling to gigs and most of all CHASING UP MONEY I WAS ALREADY OWED. Put simply, the entertainers generally get paid last, and many bookers, knowing full well you're a small business without huge legal resources, procrastinate in paying their bills with you for as long as possible. Just getting paid was a full time job in itself. At one point, the terrible spectre of injury reared its head and I got tendonitis, in late November of all times, so I couldn't play and earn my living, the lucrative Christmas/New Year period that I was relying on suddenly was down the toilet and I didn't know when I'd be back in action; this was one of the only times in my life I've ever been properly depressed. When I did get back in action, I couldn't avoid the realisation that I hated something I once loved, I couldn't play music for love anymore because doing so cost me money I needed to make by playing commercially, my social life was non-existant because playing rotten, boring functions always had to take priority over anything I might want to do for myself, my playing stank because my passion was gone and I wasn't even making a good living. The year 2000 was the last straw; for the millenium celebrations, many in the entertainments business had been using some stupid brinkmanship over fees, demanding silly money to appear on NYE 2000, with the result that many venues called their bluff and stopped hiring, and those that did book bands had their budgets shot for the following year, so business was in the sewers. I got record numbers of last minute cancellations and late payments and was generally screwed over so many times that year that I'd had enough, and spent the next few years doing anything I could to get as far away as possible from being a professional musician. Actually what I did was I started to build myself up as a music and singing teacher while temping in offices and warehouses (as I said, no-one ever gave me a proper job, despite my degree and CV of applied business/computer skills, but temp agencies just want more bodies on the conveyor belt), which was basically starting another business from scratch, but now that's my main income. I teach on a freelance/SE basis and can pick and choose when and how I play and perform to keep it on my own terms (in fact I go out of my way to keep it that way). I also get far better insurance deals as a "music teacher" than I ever did as a "musician".. insurance companies hate professional performers, they think we're all Keith Moon. Magic, escapology, juggling, performance and even much of my own music (as distinct from commercial, bread-and-butter playing) throughout all of this is part of my personality rather than a career choice, and it's still a hobby, though with Helen I finally have an unique act which seems to be building momentum and could potentially be bankable if I keep developing it correctly. Despite that I have no delusions about going full time pro (aside from the relevant question of how much of a market there is for drag escape artists), which I might have had a few years ago when I was on the breadline. Bottom line, you have to do things for the right reasons. The old adage is work to live and not the other way around; some people claim that having a day job precludes you from properly pursuing anything else, though my experience of people suggests that only applies to people who wouldn't do it anyway; I can point to many people who've used the income of a proper job, combined with proper management of their spare time and above all passion and dedication to realise their dreams. |
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
Just what the doctor ordered to help kickstart 2005. This is a very good thread and its too bad it didn't take place in tricy business.
Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight Inner circle SW Ohio, USA 1555 Posts |
I bought Charach's.
I wish I had bought Snack's instead. Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No." Dr. Lao: "Wise answer." |
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Parson Smith Inner circle 1937 Posts |
I was way late in reading this thread.
All I can say is WOW. Peace, Parson
Here kitty, kitty,kitty.
+++a posse ad esse+++ |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Good marketing is no accident.
Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts |
I make about 25% of my money from magic, and I look to include no more than that. Mainly because I don't want to loose the love of it for the business aspect, therefore, if I maintain a career (and I have a successful corporate job) I can always do magic on my terms enough to fund the exploration of it and not have to count on the next kids show (which I don't do) or the next school show (which doesn't interest me). Seems like I may be in the minority on that one, though.
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
You know, I haven't read this entire thread, so this response is to the original post.
There isn't a secret. We all already know the answer. It's a trade off. Volital big money for secure little money. It's the same with any entripaneurial venture. If you strike out on your own, you run the very big risk of catastrophic failure. Why would you save your money at a "real" job, only to waste it on a "fun" job. And how much fun is that "fun" job anyway. Become a full time, self supporting pro, you think your life will be all cake and icecream? No, it will be the constant hustle. Get the job, do the job, repeat. And why? Why do all of this? What is the point? Is it to prove you are better than those who do not? Is it to prove to yourself that you can? What are you actualy trying to accomplish? Independance is a myth, you still work for other people, just more of them. Everyone on this planet answers to someone else. I am currently a performing pro. I hardly even work part time. I perform an average of 1 hour a month. My wife supports us, and I am mostly engaged in remodeling our house and raising our 15 month old. I do not hustle. In fact, I put almost no effort into the business end of my career at all. I Work exclusivly through event planners and with the 15 month old, I am actualy passivly dodging jobs. I like my life just as it is. My wife likes our life just as it is. What else matters? When you sit down, at the end of the day, and you start to think to yourself, "what is the point of it all?" Decide what you are actualy after. Decide what you actualy need. Decide how you want the world to see you. Decide how you want the world to remember you. Weight what you have to gain against what you have to lose. Don't burn any bridges you might concievably want to cross again someday. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You really should have read the whole thread, because it is full of good information.
The idea that if you strike out on your own, you run the risk of catastrophic failure has kept more people from even trying to do anything full time, other than a burger flipping job. Well, here's some news. Security is an illusion. You can work for a Fortune 100 company, and get to work one morning to find the company closed and your retirement gone. You can get up in the morning, step out on the front porch and catch a slug from a drive-by. So, what to do? Just try it. There are a thousand reasons not to do anything that you know you should do. Don't expect booking agents to sell you. YOU have to sell yourself. You have to pick your priorities and then go for it. If your priorities do not include going on the road, then figure out where to work in town. There is no reason that not making a goal you have set yourself has to be a "catastrophic failure." If you read Psycho-Cybernetics you will see how a "failure" can be a profitable event. It all depends on what you learn from it and how you modify your behavior afterwards. You can spend your time at home learning new material, inventing tricks, making props, writing scripts. You just have to "dale ganas."
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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