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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Phantom by Peter Eggink (97 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mikenewman
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On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about Smile

René



I understand that Peter is your friend. That's great you want to back him up and support him. I respect you for your efforts...

But your comments towards "Non-Magicians" as you say (Me!).
Your thinking is way off here. So, to be a "magician" I have to perform and get paid?? So.... I don't understand mis-direction?? Really??

I have been "fooling" my 12 year old son and his sisters and my GF for the last week with the "Cap flying back on the pen" magically. They are clueless. I even did the 1,2,3, where did it go (behind my ear) and they fell for it. I also perform for friends and other family. And for Soldiers at work. They all seem to LOVE that I share effects with them. Am I great at it? Heck no! Have I been caught on some things, sometimes, yep! Should I just give up magic?

So, I guess I have no business complaining about this crap release since I am not a professional. And obviously you need to change your Website to "Professional Magicians Only"! Fine with me for sure.

QUOTE: "...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book?"

Ummm. People looking to book a magician don't call me. I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL so I do not do shows! They wouldn't call me anyways!!!

You need to accept that everyone is having an issue with this crap. It sucks! It is a fail. The darn thing failed to retract correctly on mine as well. Maybe if I knew how to "mis-direct", I can have the spectator look away so I can reel it back in manually. I guess that's my fault for not knowing how to misdirect.

On second thought, I should have kept this. I am just a NON MAGICIAN, I could have used to do the "Cap to pen" effect with it!
PRINCE
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Well said mikenewman
chrislomas
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Mikenewman, well said. Not all of us are paid pro's. I serve and most of my audience are either family or military mates. I was gutted this received bad reviews, as I like many, wad blown away by the trailer for it. Well said indeed.
reignofsound
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about Smile

René



Wow!
If you were my magic dealer I'd find someone else to buy from.
What an elitist comment to make.

I think hobbyists probably buy more magic than professionals?
T.G. Jones
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When I used to be a dealer I would give new items (for free) to my best customers for them to try out before I would peddle them to others. At least that way I could sell them honestly using feedback from people I trust. Compare that to all of this pre-sale nonsense that happens now...

"Phantom is crazy. Peter Eggink has killed it with this product." Hocus Pocus

"The gimmick for this is very, very clever!", "I'm sure you will be using this at gigs!" - Merchant of Magic

"I watched the entire instructional video's which has FULL PERFORMANCES as the spectators would see it (including your secret handling of course) and I think it will be a great seller"- Dynamite Magic Shop

If I'd have taken that approach my reputation would have been shot to pieces in no time. I'm surprised these guys get any repeat business.

Compare the dealer hype to the reality...

"Ah jeez... this came today..... sorry guys... it's horrible."

"I returned mine for a full refund, no questions asked."

"It's horribly bad".

You know that review show, TNT - Trust The Trailer, maybe we should have a TTD show - Trust The Dealer. Now there's a thought.
Paul S Wingham
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If creators only sold to pros there would be no point releasing a trick. I imagine less than 1% of magicians do it for any other reason than love / a hobby

I feel for dealers when they get garbage like this. On one hand they risk annoying customers if they sell it. If they don't; they're stuck with the stock. If they wait for reviews, bu the time they get stock, we'll have moved on to the next trick.

Half the problem with the magic world is a) people scratch each others backs too much b) magicians seem scared to talk badly about "names". Throw in dishonest videos like phantoms and what chance do we have? I'd never say something is hood if it was rubbish. I've got too much respect for myself!
PRINCE
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The irony of it all... 'Magicians helping magicians'
chrislomas
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
If creators only sold to pros there would be no point releasing a trick. I imagine less than 1% of magicians do it for any other reason than love / a hobby

I feel for dealers when they get garbage like this. On one hand they risk annoying customers if they sell it. If they don't; they're stuck with the stock. If they wait for reviews, bu the time they get stock, we'll have moved on to the next trick.

Half the problem with the magic world is a) people scratch each others backs too much b) magicians seem scared to talk badly about "names". Throw in dishonest videos like phantoms and what chance do we have? I'd never say something is hood if it was rubbish. I've got too much respect for myself!



Have a look at magic worlds reviews on youtube. James Anthony is pretty honest about tricks he reviews, as to whether he would use them etc. Even recommends similar items he would use instead.
LookyLookyMan
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On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price,


utter nonsense. the margin on magic is MASSIVE. murphy's et al will give you around 50% of retail cost.
Slackerking
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On Sep 11, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin.

There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,


Different point of view here-

Bulk DVD purchases bring the price down substantially per disc and shipping costs are passed on to the customer so no profit reduction impact there.

...Profit margin a small percentage of the price? Hardly! You would be surprised what the profit margin is on magic products, especially the one's creators produce in China or with a distributor who has the product made in China. It happens much more than is generally known.


No, you're talking about the dealers. Bulk DVDs bring the price down for creators but it's still an additional cost and shipping costs aren't passed on the customer because I'm taklking about the developer shipping it to dealers not dealers shipping it to buyers. My business partner has another business who sells purses which are made in China for cheap and sold here for hundreds of dollars. You would think the profit margin would be huge but you'd be wrong. After shipping, taxes, all the fees to get it here, marketing, and other overhead the profit margins are much slimmer than you'd imagine. Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product. After all is said and done profit margins in magic are very similar to profit margins in all business. You're mixing up dealer profit and developer profit but Dealer profit isn't any higher as they also have overhead and fixed expenses.
Slackerking
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, LookyLookyMan wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price,


utter nonsense. the margin on magic is MASSIVE. murphy's et al will give you around 50% of retail cost.


You obviously don't run a business. Margin isn't profit, they aren't making 50% profit. If they're making 10% after all expenses that's very very good.
Wardy
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, Wardy wrote:
Sorry, but I gave this gimmick a serious try and there's no way you can do genie in bottle 100% as shown in the ad. No hard feelings against Peter, but not every song the Rolling Stones writes is a hit either.


Good attitude. You've obviously got more money to waste than me.


I knew it had to be some type of thread watching the video, but the gimmick itself was a let down for the Genie trick. I thought the gimmick would have been more practical and therefore wasn't worried too much about the method initially.But the gimmick and the 'glob' of stuff just doesn't work for Genie. Thankfully I know when I buy from Penguin that a refund is possible, and Mert handled my request quickly and professionally. I now have 3 better tricks than this waste of time gimmick, and have re-learnt to wait for killer reviews before buying gimmick tricks. Lesson learnt for me, hopefully for Peter too.
mikenewman
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What are the 3 better tricks? Just curious.
dyoung
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I think it's pretty simple... IF the pen's not the problem, and it's all in the magician's head. Then why was it never shown in the video?

I wish magician's stopped trying to fool other magicians with these kinda trailers.

The thing that will go through any normal person's head is... why is he still holding onto the pen? He did put it away once, and then he took it out again for some reason.

If this wasn't just The Hole gimmick all over again, you could easily have made the pen write. No reason why you couldn't. Now you have to use a normal pen, and then switch in the Phantom. I mean, really?!?!? C'mon... let's stop this.

//Dan

(oh and yes, margins in a magic shop is tiny)
Wardy
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Quote:
On Sep 12, 2015, mikenewman wrote:
What are the 3 better tricks? Just curious.


Hey Mike,By better I mean fit my style and are very visual. The Vanishing by Jon Allen(qualified for free flat pack to Oz,hopefully get it this week, goes with Screen Test and French Postcards nicely),Download by Nicholas Lawrence(I'd been looking for a signature jumping to a signed card in a visual way for a while) and the Dave Deck(5 bucks and have already used it at a party a few times,great prediction for inebriated people!) So you can see why I'll be sticking with Penguin, awesome customer service!

Cheers from Oz, Wardy
EZrhythm
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin.

There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,


Different point of view here-

Bulk DVD purchases bring the price down substantially per disc and shipping costs are passed on to the customer so no profit reduction impact there.

...Profit margin a small percentage of the price? Hardly! You would be surprised what the profit margin is on magic products, especially the one's creators produce in China or with a distributor who has the product made in China. It happens much more than is generally known.


No, you're talking about the dealers. Bulk DVDs bring the price down for creators but it's still an additional cost and shipping costs aren't passed on the customer because I'm taklking about the developer shipping it to dealers not dealers shipping it to buyers. My business partner has another business who sells purses which are made in China for cheap and sold here for hundreds of dollars. You would think the profit margin would be huge but you'd be wrong. After shipping, taxes, all the fees to get it here, marketing, and other overhead the profit margins are much slimmer than you'd imagine. Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product. After all is said and done profit margins in magic are very similar to profit margins in all business. You're mixing up dealer profit and developer profit but Dealer profit isn't any higher as they also have overhead and fixed expenses.


Actually I was talking about the creator's profit and if the creator knows how to structure pricing then his profit margin will hardly be small. ( I never said "huge") In regards to shipping costs of developers sending their products to dealers- Yes, shipping costs are passed on if the developer knows what he is doing because he will factor that in when deciding or agreeing what amount the product will sell for. Regarding your friends business- I am familiar with profit margins of such a business example so they shouldn't be slimmer than I am imagining if he is being successful.

You stated, "Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product." I believe you meant "marketing" instead of "making".
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
normative
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Postscript: Having played with this when it arrived & pretty quickly abandoned it as impractical & inferior to other methods for the same effects, I pulled it from the box today resolving to play with it & see if I could come up with some other use for it. It was, after all, sort of a clever gimmick, & I figured even if I wasn't about to rely on it for the most awkward haunted deck ever, it would probably be good for SOMETHING. After about 15 minutes of (I swear!) quite gentle experimentation——which largely involve guessing whether it would move an object, do nothing, or merely pull itself loose leaving a smear of wax behind again—the piece to which the wax is affixed snapped off. I take this to be the universe's way of informing me I'd wasted enough time on a cute but ultimately bad idea.
Ustaad
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I think there is not much left to discuss this release. This thread can now be put to rest. Smile

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET, there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
daniltan
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On Sep 14, 2015, Ustaad wrote:
I think there is not much left to discuss this release. This thread can now be put to rest. Smile

Smile

I'm agree with you, Ustaad. All different people. But, the reviews are pretty much the same.

P.S.
My Phantom is still OTW. Without knowing for sure whether it's already sent or not. There's no confirmation email from HP that they're already sent the package. So, I got no postal code to track the package. And my last mail asking about the delivery and possibility to return the "seems to be unused" product was not reply for almost a week now (if I remember correctly). I sent the mail to Mr. Paul. Not so happy about all of this.
PRINCE
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This thread should keep going - if I was tempted to buy this (and from the trailer I would be) then just before I hit the buy button to check on here, this thread would save me and I would be so grateful
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