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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Stay Stack? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

tmcbls
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Hello,

We have our own patois and part of that is what goes along with "shuffled not stirred."

I like definitions.

May I ask, what is a "Stay Stack?" I was under the impression that one could practice Faros with such a deck. Although one can do the same with a deck in NDO (I know that one!).

I suffer from what I read about... I have decided on what stack I would like to memorize. And I know the creator of this stack indicated that 45 minutes a day and you should have it down. I don't doubt it in the least.

I am in a technical field; sometimes we need to know about a technical advance. Generally an internet class is created, runs about an hour, at the end you are tested and provided resources. I believe there is not such a thing "out there" for learning a stack.

Unless there is? So two questions please, what is a "stay stack," and has anyone created a DVD or whatever that starts Day one through Dan n with lessons and testing to learn "a stack?" This... is entirely my thick headed low IQ problem...

Thanks to whoever reads this.
WilburrUK
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My understanding is that Stay-Stack is any stack where the top card's mate is on the bottom, the 2nd from top's mate is 2nd from the bottom etc - ie the bottom half of the deck is a mirror image of the top half.

If you faro shuffle (in or out) such a stack, the cards are mixed, but it retains it's stay-stack property.
Harry Lorayne
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Look up Matchmaker's Chart in APOCALYPSE; you may find information re: Stay Stack. And, "has anyone created a DVD or whatever that starts Day one through Dan n with lessons and testing to learn "a stack?" Yeah; created about 20 books, and an entire memory course JUST FOR YOU!!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
alecStephenson
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One difficultly with the standard stay-stack definition is that it can give the impression that the invariance to (out or in) faroing is unique to this stack, but this is not true.

The invariance derives from the pairings (1,52), (2,51), (2,50) etc, and NOT from the property itself. In fact, any (unordered) property on the pairs will be invariant to faroing (the 2 cards in the pair may be switched in the faro, so the property should not be ordered to ensure it is still identifiable under the switching).

For example, each of the parings have the same rank. Or each of the pairs have the same suit. Or each of the pairs have both cards summing to 13, with the Kings paired e.g. (3, 10), (5, 7), (K, K), .... Or do the same but switch the suits to their mates e.g. (3C, 10S), (5S, 7C), (KD, KH),...

All of these things will be invariant to faroing.

I propose a "generalized stay-stack" definition: any stack with an unordered property on the pairs (1,52),(2,51),... This then makes the property invariant to faroing.


This "generalized stay-stack" seems underused. For example, you could take any stay-stack effect (prodigious memory or whatever) and use a generalized stay-stack instead. Faro* however many times you want. Then you can ribbon spread the cards face up, because the cards will look random and no spectator will be able to identify a generalized stay-stack. But since you know the property, the effect proceeds just as with standard stay-stack.

*If you can't faro, then you can antifaro (pile deal), as discussed in e.g. an appendix of mnemonica, and obviously you don't need to be concerned about reversing the order either (strictly speaking, the antifaro does not undo the faro because it reverses the order of the cards, but this is okay here).
alecStephenson
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Corrections: (2, 50) is (3, 50); (5, 7) is (6, 7), (5S, 7C) is (6S, 7C).

Another thing: For antifaros, notice that the invariance is to both in and out faros (or a mixture of the two), so (with some restrictions) you could even ask the spectator the order of the pick up.
Ferry Gerats
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@alecStephenson
For another take on your "generalized stay-stack" you may find the hidden staystack of interest.
See: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=205
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