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Ashkenazi the Pretty Good Veteran user Northern California 366 Posts |
I bought a very interesting product called the "Ultimate Cane," a Fantasio vanishing cane that has a modified topwhich may be lit on fire. Rather than a loop, one attaches a single thread along it for two or so inches using black electrician's tape along the spiral.
I'm pretty sure this is a problem. Because of course that's not a loop. The thread running in the pattern of the cane's spirals does stay on, but it's a) not a loop and b) isn't balanced properly - the balance point is about 1/3rd of the way down rather than half-way. So I write as a desperate performer in not-so-quiet desperation to ask for expert advice. I tried gluing thread with a single drop of crazy glue to an old Fantasio wand and it looks good and holds, and bought a 1/4" x 6" pipette to put in the bottom of the Fantasio cane to function as a counter-weight. I then run the bottom silk through the pipette from the anchor point, and paint the pipette red. So the counter-weight idea seems to work OK. I'll try tonight to glue the thread to each side of the stick (as I can't run it through the stick), but I wonder if the loop is in fact crucial to the effect. That is to say, by moving through the cane in incremental amounts, the physics of the trick are possible. By having two secured points (one point on each side of the cylinder rather than a loop through the cylinder), I wonder if I'm screwed. Thoughts and advice much appreciated. I won't perform it unless I'm confident, but it's an excellent finale to my two-minute opening to Stravinsky's Firebird. Flaming Cane. Dances. Changes to red silks. Looks cool. Doesn't work just now. Thank you in advance for your time. ATPG
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We could have been practicing! |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
If you want a loop, make 2 small holes with a pin and thread it through, and now you can make a loop. The balance point is obviously different because of the wieghted top. Most performers find that it actually helps. Also try making your line or loop about 3 or 4 inches longer than a regular DC and you will notice a huge improvement with your control. The cane will also now dance much further away from you than before, again also adding to the effect. Too bad you can not view the demo on my site. It think that the performance video would help you greatly.
P.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
It sounds like you got ultimately S****d with this. It seems you are trying to perform something it was not intended for.
Didn't it come with any instructions? Can you contact the dealer you got it from for help? The cane (if it was actually ment for dancing) should have come with the 3 things needed for this effect. Fantasio's Magic site sells the gimmick only for the dancing cane. It is very inexpensive. I suggest you order these items for the effect you are trying to create. You should only have the gimmick 2" above the top of the cane, not 3 or 4 as earlier suggested. There may be a reason it is designed as it is. The original version makes it possible for you to burn youself. |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
Wnhegbli-I think he is having trouble mastering the effect in just a few short days before performance.
He emailed me the day he got it and said that he was having trouble locating the balance of the cane, as all we include is the fire gimmick for the effect(which he was aware of at time of purchase) and he also could not view the performance video because he had a MAC, I kindly offered to refund his money if he couldn't apply the gimmick properly for his applications. It is not my fault that he is having troubles trying to master this effect in just 7 days prior to his show(I was unaware of this fact also at the time of purchase, I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to master an effect in just a week prior to a show, I would recommend a much much longer grace period when adding anything new to a show)! I know that I created the effect but I have no problems making it work as evident on my short demo of the effect on my website. I haven't had any other past consumers tell me they couldn't get it to work properly either. I aswell as others actually find that the fire gimmick actually aids in the overall balance of the cane. Obviously I know now this is not the case for everyone. The handling for my effect is and has to be much different than any other dancing cane. Yes it does take some getting used to, as the balance with my cane is much different than a normal dancing cane(because of the fire gimmick), and yes 3-4 inches is appropriate for my cane. You don't own one so Im unsure how you are able to give advice on something that is completey abstract and performs completely diffferent from any other dancing cane out there. Here is the movie link so you can see it in action- http://www.masterofillusions.ca/media/CANE72.wmv (Notice the hook up 3-4 inches above the cap) Here is the link to my web page regarding the effect so you know exactly what we are talking about here- http://www.masterofillusions.ca/ULT-CANE.htm Oh and so you know Fantasio produces some of the materials for my company used in this prop. I think that for only $20 this is one heck of an effect not to mention I already offered his money back twice, so I don't see how anyone could be as you put it-"Ultimately S****D" P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
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Ashkenazi the Pretty Good Veteran user Northern California 366 Posts |
OK guys, let's set two things straight.
I don't want my money back. I think it's a fine product. If I can master a Bach fugue in several hours of intensive practice over several days, I should be able to do this right. I have learned most of the magic I perform competently in this manner: hours of focused practice and experimentation. Now to the issues at hand: The normal dancing cane, e.g. Jeff McBride's work, functions differently. I did go see Peter's video, and it is to my mind a limited performance of the effect. The balance point seems to be key in getting it to really move like other canes. Tonight, I drilled a hole through a dowel, just a little above the balance point, and it did things I can't get the Fantasio with this gimmick to do. Peter has a fine product. I do not think however that anybody can do nearly as much with it, at this time, as one can with a standard dancing cane. BTW Peter, the problem in viewing your product is you only have the newest media, not my Mac. You can have your web guy make it in Quicktime or Windows Media 7, like I wrote you. And finally, when you write above: "If you want a loop, make 2 small holes with a pin and thread it through, and now you can make a loop. The balance point is obviously different because of the wieghted top. Most performers find that it actually helps. Also try making your line or loop about 3 or 4 inches longer than a regular DC and you will notice a huge improvement with your control. The cane will also now dance much further away from you than before, again also adding to the effect. " ...you are telling me what I asked for some days ago. That's a little frustrating. Why didn't you give me this information last week, or with the product? Finally, I have no idea what S*****D stands for. Feel free to pm me. I still think it's a product with potential, but am not convinced it can do nearly what other canes do. I am not sure if it is a hoop moving through the cane, or the balance point that makes this difference. Any suggestions from people who had the same problem would be appreciated. Keep inventing, Peter. But I don't think you're addressing the problem at hand by advising me how long I should practice, or watching your video. Respectfully Yours, ATPG
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We could have been practicing! |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
Agian I would never count on using any prop until I was sure it was going to work-hence my comments above. Please don't take offence to this but a few hours or a week of intense practice may normally work for you with as you said yourslef "most" of your magic, but never assume this with "all" of your magic-hence the problem you have right now. Always assume that you will have problems and leave your self plenty of time to either address the problem or replace the effect in the show. We come across unexpected problems all the time when adding new illusions to our show. This is the best advice I can give you for when you are adding future effects to your show.
I only offered the "make two holes" suggestion becuase I just thought of it. I can't stand the loop method with my cane so that is why I never suggested anything of a loop to you before or in the instructions, and you never asked me for a loop method in your emails either just that you were having problems attacing the thread. If you asked me specifially for a loop method perhaps I would have come up with that idea then too and had suggested it to you. Plus you would have to keep making new holes as the balance point can change slightly. But I thought it might get you through in a fix. Your other complaint was that it took to long to set up. I suggested you set it up before you went to the show, and your response was that you already had too many other things to set up before your show but you would "manage anyway"-what am I supposed to say that one? As far as the 3-4 inches of thread above the cap-is a preference. As stated in the instructions, each cane and it's users vary-this is something you will have to experiment with. You are correct the cane is limited durring it's performance. I personally don't do the effect for more than 2 minutes. As I suggested to you in an earlier email, I would do some of the more complicated moves with it before it is set afire for about 30-45 seconds. Then the cane is lit afire(as part of the grand finale of the trick) I perform with it lit for 30 seconds as shown in the video, followed by the vanish into the silks. If you are trying to build a 3-5 minute routine around this, then I would suggest something else. Although my cane is limited in moves, that is the comprimise you will have to accept if you want to combine, a dancing cane with fire, and a vanishing cane. A vanishing cane was never manufactured to be used as a dancing cane, so it is obvious that the performance of the cane will have limitations. Im not addressing your problem? Now that is simply not true. I have all of the emails you sent me and my replies, I felt I provided you with all of the information that you requested to the best of my ability, Im sorry it wasn't able to help you, and my offer still stands about refunding your money. I don't know what else I can possibly do! Finally I have an idea of what wmhegbli ment when he said "Ultimately S****D" but am not certain of the exact word, so you may want to ask him. This has been a strong effect in my 'Extreme Illusions of Fire' segmant of my show for close to 10 years now. It has worked out great for me, I appologize for the fact that you can not get it to work for your applications. I hope everything works out for you and wish you all the best with your show. P.
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Lou Hilario Inner circle 2235 Posts |
I have the Ultimate Cane and I don't use a fantasio cane for it. I attached it to my Fukai Dancing Cane and it works well. The fire on the cane makes the thread invisible and gives me a reason to dim the lights on stage.
Magic, Illusions, Juggling, Puppet & Parrot Show ^0^
http://www.louhilario.net |
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