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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Dai Vernon's wand spin (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jcrabtree2007
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Ammar Cups and Balls Vol 2. Its not a hard move to master.
Oscar999
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If you're wanting to combine the vanish with the wand spin the best advice I ever received was at a magic meeting (in the close-up class) - to separate the spin from the steal/vanish.

By acknowledging the two "parts" you don't rush yourself - essentially the spin is done and then the steal occurs in a sweeping motion over and under the fist which catches the "ball" from a heel clip. It's pretty easy when you break it into two distinct actions.

Oscar
Bill Palmer
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Unless one or more of us has spoken with Daryl about this, then I would recommend that you either call, write or e-mail Darryl to find the answer, or go to the mentalism forum to see if someone over there can read his mind. Smile

Quote:
On Oct 5, 2015, Montana76 wrote:
Hi,
I am currently studying Daryl's Master Course - Cups and balls (vol. 2). His presentation of the Dai Vernon routine does not include the wand spin at the vanish of the third ball in stage 2 referenced in "The Dai Vernon Book of Magic by Lewis Ganson".

So, I am curious;
- Why did Daryl omit this?
- Is this not a part of the "original routine"?
- Is there a video source where I can study it?

I wish you all a splendid week!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Mobius303
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I have talked and e-mailed him.
He said he never learned the Vernon wand spin so he did not put it on the video.

He did not give an answer as to why he never learned one.
RC
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Here's a practice session of my wand spin (and some additional moves): https://vimeo.com/131467735

I got my start & inspiration to learn from Michael Ammar. I've considered possibly trying to produce a video detailing how to do the moves and some subtleties I've added. This video was made just to show Mr. Ammar my progress and to say thank you. He suggested I contribute the information to a magazine or even document the work at Bill Palmer's site (Hi Bill, I'm Ryan. Smile ) . Would anyone be interested in something like this? I don't want to take away from other products already out by repeating info that is already available. I believe Ammar's dvd is a "wanderful" source. It's where I got my start. I also wouldn't necessarily want this info to be public domain. These are just a few thoughts. What do you guys think?
Bill Palmer
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That makes some sense. I'm not sure why Vernon used it at all. Most of his work was basically "flourish-free." But I certainly wouldn't argue with either one of them as to why they did or did not use the wand spin.



Quote:
On Mar 25, 2016, Mobius303 wrote:
I have talked and e-mailed him.
He said he never learned the Vernon wand spin so he did not put it on the video.

He did not give an answer as to why he never learned one.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Bill Palmer
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Here is some food for thought, regarding the various wand spins and flourishes.

1) If your wand is made of a homogeneous material, then it will balance in the center. Some people advertise that their wands are "correctly balanced for the Vernon wand spin." Use a dowel.

2) Some people find that using a slightly heavier wand causes the inertia of the wand to keep it spinning properly.

3) Don't use a wand that is too long for the length of your arm. A 12" wand is plenty long for most of us. If you have a heavy wand that is too long, you can hurt yourself with it by hitting yourself in the face.

4) Don't rush the wand spin (or the Williamson vanish, for that matter). If you try to move too quickly, you blow the sleight.

5) Most of the videos we see of Vernon doing the wand spin were made when he was in his late 70's or early 80's. He had done the wand spin tens of thousands of times by then. Don't expect your wand spin to be perfect after just two or three attempts!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Leo H
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Anyone learning the wand spin would do well to get Ammar's Mercury Wand. It has that nice rubber grip and is the right weight for the spin. Learning the wand spin is a pleasure with this prop. It was for me.

I understand that Vernon used the wand spin to throw the audience off the trail. After the first two vanishes, they would understandably begin to suspect that the magician was not honestly transferring the ball into the left hand. After the third transfer, the ball is shown to actually be in the left hand.
medievalmagician
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It took me almost a week of practicing the Vernon Wand Spin before it felt right. I brought my wand with me everywhere, practicing at every opportunity. The vanish, on the other hand is still a work in progress
friend2cptsolo
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I think the hardest part to get down is that timing of the drop and catch.
video will help.
miky
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I was disappointed with the Ammar video in that he showed only the wand spin in the Superpractice session at the end of the segment and omitted the vanish.
Leo H
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Quote:
On Jul 2, 2016, miky wrote:
I was disappointed with the Ammar video in that he showed only the wand spin in the Superpractice session at the end of the segment and omitted the vanish.


Are you referring to Ammar's Complete Cups and Balls videos? Everything you need to learn the wand spin vanish is in there on Volume II.
Lawrence O
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Just an historical point. Michael Ammar has done a great job in promoting and teaching properly the wand spin. I share his admiration for Dai Vernon's essential contribution to our art but his crediting to The Professor for this move is just unfair to the actual creator. Lewis McCord of Pittsburgh, PA aka Silent Mora spent two years between 1903 and 1905 perfecting his original idea before releasing its final version. Dai Vernon was born in 1894 and was therefore 6 to 11 years old and living in Ottawa (Canada) when Silent Mora released its creation.
Similar thing can be pointed out on Dai Vernon's cups and balls routine. The routine -with all of its original phases and moves (including the Tip Over Load and the spectator's choice for which side to magically transfer the ball, only missing the wand spin)- was released for the first time in a small book by Jean-Auguste Faugeras (1868-1955), a Paris magic dealer whose magician's name was Jean Caroly, "Le Prestidigitateur: Tours faciles d’escamotage". Paris A. L. Guyot undated [1900-1902] Vernon was 6 years old
The interesting point here, apart from the historical aspect, is that The Professor's recognition for his major contribution to magic is misinterpreted by magicians. It's not in "new moves" like most young magicians try and discover. It's partly described in the introduction to his Book of Magic (using a ball and the French Drop for example purpose) and Bill Palmer rightfully reminds it here : it's in the absence of flourishes and in making moves look "naturalistic". Naturalistic is different from natural in as much as it deals not with the moves natural to the performer but PERCEIVED AS NATURAL by any spectator.
The professor also brought an essential concept for this naturalistic approach which he used constantly and that he was callin "the magic management" : magic management makes any move come in naturally at a stage in a routine and is essential to the naturalistic aspect OF A ROUTINE (in this case killing the suspicion that the ball may not actually be in the left hand before the spin and focusing on the "power of the wand" which is not just a painted wooden stick).
Learning the Silent Mora's move (and giving proper credit for the move or the routine) is not sufficient to celebrate Dai Vernon's genius as that genius was not in putting his name on a move but in picking up moves and blending them, from causes to consequences, into a sequence of gestures that would combine the most naturalistically in a routine...
Thus let's learn and celebrate Dai Vernon by not overlooking his actual essential contribution and replacing it by some things he didn't claim to hide our ignorance of his actual major contribution : magic is not about "moves" or "sleights" (which should nevertheless be perfectly performed)
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
RC
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Really great post, Lawrence. Very well said.
kuma62
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Is it anywhere in the Vernon revelations dvds?
Tom G
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I'm pretty sure they go over it and teach it.
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