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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Anyone Done This? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

RiderBacks
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So obviously I'm new to memdeck work. Thus my recent work on the Aronson Stack. But I wonder if anybody has tried to pull off the following... it seems like it could be incredibly powerful (though it requires significant skill and work).

Some memdeck folks are comfortable with having more than one stack committed to memory. Some already even have three or four stacks (or more) committed to memory. This is hardly beyond the pale for serious memdeck workers, and I assume this ability is perfectly reasonable to expect. After all, it requires less practice than a perfect tabled faro. And if I wanted to, I wouldn't be afraid of memorizing multiple stacks... In fact, I have already considered the possibility of adding a second (Tamariz's).

But suppose you had something like three or four stacks memorized. And suppose you can also perform an in-the-hands perfect faro. Then you could basically move from two shuffles to a new stack, perform a trick, and use two or three shuffles to move to a new memdeck, and then perform another trick. This could yield some pretty impressive stuff.

While you could start from your own stack, I think the best way to pull this off would be to be memorize stacks that can be faroed into from NDO. Then you could crack a brand new deck, display it, give it two perfect faro shuffles, and move into a known stack. You could follow this (provided you haven't disrupted stack order with the trick), by doing another two or three perfect faros and moving into a new known stack. And you could cycle this through the deck endlessly like this.

Is that a stupid idea? (I can think of a few reasons why it might be.) Just curious since I'm debating learning multiple stacks. So has anyone done this? I mean, surely nobody would suspect this nonsense. Multiple memorized stacks? Perfect faros? If one put in the work, this could perhaps truly blow some minds! Or it might just be stupid.
nlokers
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I would suggest checking out Greg Chapmans book "The Devil's Staircase" he has some ideas that are related to this and in general has a ton of useful mem deck stuff in it.

I personally have considered memorizing some of the faro permutations of my memorized deck, but so far I haven't gotten around to it. My suggestion for your NDO idea would be to go through and look at the arrangements as you faro shuffle a deck from NDO through all 8 permutations, I think what you'll find is that only #3,#4, and #5 are mixed up enough to let anyone look at spread face up and for me I think only #5 would be acceptable.

I think I will also go ahead and second what someone else mentioned in a previous thread when you asked, but I think memorizing and trying to maintain multiple stacks is not worth it. My first stack was the Aronson stack, I later switched to my own stack and have no interest in maintaining the Aronson stack in my memory, but every once in a while I think of a position and instead of the card from my stack that I've been drilling myself on for the last two years, the card from the Aronson stack shows up and I find it super annoying.
alicauchy
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Quote:
On Oct 29, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Is that a stupid idea? (I can think of a few reasons why it might be.) Just curious since I'm debating learning multiple stacks. So has anyone done this? I mean, surely nobody would suspect this nonsense. Multiple memorized stacks? Perfect faros? If one put in the work, this could perhaps truly blow some minds! Or it might just be stupid.


Not at all. The bad news is that the idea is already published (in some form), for instance, in Mnemonica under the heading "the wheel of mnemonicas".

The idea that, starting from your preferred ordering, applying faros you can still know exactly the location of any card. Actually, you do not need to memorize different orderings, but the faro formulas instead (much easier than mixing two or more stacks)
So much to do, so little time . . .
dylanxtay
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Quote:
So has anyone done this? I mean, surely nobody would suspect this nonsense. Multiple memorized stacks? Perfect faros? If one put in the work, this could perhaps truly blow some minds! Or it might just be stupid.


Sure it's possible to work on such extremity to memorize all of the permutations of the stack running in the cycle of 8 out faros, but I don't really see the need. The effort to output ratio is just way too big for this, and considering memorized deck work to be already a niche thing in the magic circle, laymen wouldn't have a chance. #2cents
Dylan Tay
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RiderBacks
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On Oct 29, 2015, dylanxtay wrote: Sure it's possible to work on such extremity to memorize all of the permutations of the stack running in the cycle of 8 out faros, but I don't really see the need. The effort to output ratio is just way too big for this, and considering memorized deck work to be already a niche thing in the magic circle, laymen wouldn't have a chance. #2cents


I think two or three faros is fine. So you don't need to memorize all eight permutations... I'd say having three or four of them memorized would be ideal, but you could perhaps get by with just two. You can also up the ante by adding some cuts (two should work just fine ::wink wink::) Agreed, this is overkill for most laymen. Not worth the "effort" though? I'm not so sure.
dylanxtay
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On Oct 30, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 29, 2015, dylanxtay wrote: Sure it's possible to work on such extremity to memorize all of the permutations of the stack running in the cycle of 8 out faros, but I don't really see the need. The effort to output ratio is just way too big for this, and considering memorized deck work to be already a niche thing in the magic circle, laymen wouldn't have a chance. #2cents


I think two or three faros is fine. So you don't need to memorize all eight permutations... I'd say having three or four of them memorized would be ideal, but you could perhaps get by with just two. You can also up the ante by adding some cuts (two should work just fine ::wink wink::) Agreed, this is overkill for most laymen. Not worth the "effort" though? I'm not so sure.



I think it depends largely on what you're gonna do with it. Having memorized another set of faro order off the original stack might be useful, but for memorized deck work, the powerful ones doesn't require them.

If you're seeking to give off the impression of having the cards to be legitimately faro shuffled in front of your audiences, why not just go back (anti faro them once or twice), then work them back in with an actual faro and start your routine? I think you'll save tons of time while gaining tons of mileage through this.

Gotta recommend Michael Close's Workers 5. He's probably the first one to put up this idea in print.
Dylan Tay
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nlokers
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Even for the most simple of tricks there are layman that say 'the cards are in some kind of special order'. It seems to me that it could be really nice to do two faros in between each effect or even in the middle of an effect.
dylanxtay
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On Oct 30, 2015, nlokers wrote:
Even for the most simple of tricks there are layman that say 'the cards are in some kind of special order'. It seems to me that it could be really nice to do two faros in between each effect or even in the middle of an effect.


Or you can whiff in some convincing false shuffles in the mix. It's eventually up to the performer to decide how the effect is perceived and canceling out the possible solutions that your spectators might have.

Juan Tamariz's "The Magic Way" is definitely a must read, especially on his theory on 'false solutions'. And BAM! Problem solved.
Dylan Tay
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RiderBacks
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On Oct 30, 2015, dylanxtay wrote: Or you can whiff in some convincing false shuffles in the mix. It's eventually up to the performer to decide how the effect is perceived and canceling out the possible solutions that your spectators might have.


Don't worry, I have more of those. I'm not relying on just a perfect faro. ;-) Here I recommend a good Truffle Shuffle.
Cohiba
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My opinion? Total overkill.

The only people you'd possibly impress would be magicians, and as mentioned above, they'd assume you're just using faro formulas. At a minimum they're going to recognize the faros / know that you're controlling the cards, and that kills 95% of the mystery.

For laymen, a false shuffle (assuming your card handling and routining is sound) is all you need.
RiderBacks
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On Nov 5, 2015, Cohiba wrote: My opinion? Total overkill.

The only people you'd possibly impress would be magicians, and as mentioned above, they'd assume you're just using faro formulas. At a minimum they're going to recognize the faros / know that you're controlling the cards, and that kills 95% of the mystery.

For laymen, a false shuffle (assuming your card handling and routining is sound) is all you need.


That's probably a fair assessment.
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